Channel Islands boards: best ever?

No, most pros can ride a snow sled on a wave better then I could ride one of those CI boards. Riding is personal and so are the boards people chose to ride. At least that's how I see it? If you want to wiggle toes or bust fins off the face and all the things in between.

Sounds like the dude was giving you the hard-sell.

I have an old Merrick 6'3 that is a great board (although I'm too fat to surf it now), but I wouldn't say best ever.

It's like anything else, good surfers can ride just about anything. Yeah, all of these boards work, but not for everybody. Just because you pony up the cash for a CI doesn't mean it's going to not break when smashed by a DOH lip, or make you surf better. In some cases (as with my 6'3), it actually makes me surf worse. In the end I think you are paying for not just the name, but all of the R&D they have done with different shapes over the years. A custom board will always suit you better IMO -as to whether a custom Merrick will surf better than a custom board from another shaper? Well, I don't know.

That's a great question.

Over the last number of years I've had shortboards from all kinds of shapers (T.Patterson, JS, SMR/Neptune, Haut, Infinity, Spyder, M10, Ward Coffey...on and on), as well as four CI shorties. I've also shaped about 25 boards myself when I lived in SB, to varying success. I've had the CIs most recently. I think CIs are "safe," that is the designs are tested and refined, and if you get the right one for your ability, it will work. I think other shapers can produce things that are just as good, but maybe it's more of a roll of the dice? Theoretically I love the idea of getting a custom board, but I've paid a lot of money for something up front, and then it doesn't get shaped to what I want....so sometimes that doesn't work either. Now I just buy off the used rack. Then I can try more boards, and I don't cry when I get that first ding.

But to answer your question, I guess I do feel like the CIs perform better, but I'm the first to admit that may just be because I've been brainwashed by the image. But hey, if I feel like they make me surf better, then what does it matter? I have a feeling that some proponents of local/custom will look down that simplistic acceptance of the corporate surf product, but oh well, I have fun.

I like CI boards, but finding a magic board is about trial and error, wave type, board size and shape, ability, etc. In other words, there are a lot of factors. My magic board was an Eric Arakawa 7'4" pintail that was hands down the best board I ever surfed until I snapped it a month ago. I have a new one on order and I'm definitely apprehensive that it won't live up to its ancestor...

I agree with what has already been stated here, and particularly with AC's point that it's a "safe" option. Those boards are mass produced because they're likely to work for a wide range of people. However, if you aren't average sized, if you have special requests (heavy glass, special fin setup/dimensions/inlays), or if you're looking for a different feeling when you surf, I think custom or local is the way to go. Plus, there's something really special and unique about getting a custom shape you're stoked on.

Channel Islands, Rusty, Surftech and the others currently produce lots of alternative boards because people are open to riding them these days, but it wasn't long ago that all they popped out were narrow shorties for rippah shredding and not much else. Their innovations will always be primarily guided by their team riders, who surf differently than almost everyone else in the water, and secondarily by what other surfers are buying en masse from local shapers. It's worth pointing out that if it wasn't for the higher prices of CI boards, they wouldn't be able to comp so many boards to their pro riders. In effect, by paying extra for these boards, one enables CI and others to maintain team riders for R&D and marketing purposes, which is needed to make them a premium brand. Does that make them the best in the world? Maybe, maybe not.

My personal opinion? You're paying for a logo, unless you truly can't find a local shaper who can give you what you want.

CI boards are like any others in that you can get a dull one but in general they are shaped a lot better. So you pay for consistancy. On some crappier boards I have had to adjust on the takeoff back further on the board because it wasn't shaped right, not fun to get pitched cause your board sucks.

The better I have gotten the more a good board matters.
The goal of having a good board is so that you aren't thinking about the board but become one with it. In short you are limited by yourself not the board.
Different conditions require different boards.

I have had 6 to 7 CI boards or so in my life, only 1 was really nothing special. The Flyer is one of my all time favorite boards ever its got it all. It paddles well, surfs well.

Also as most know the conditions often dictate what board is the best to ride. A 7 foot flyer is awesome in double to triple overhead offshore surf. It sucks in headhigh mushburgers. Although I heard other comments about how pros can ride anything most would admit a magic board is awesome and makes a big difference.

I love firewire boards., the el fuego is my favorite. Not sure about their longevity though,

Aren't those Anacapas just the machine-made versions of CIs?

Anacapas are pretty heavy boards - at least for me but they are CIs

When Jake Burton bought CI some years ago, first he cut shaper pay for each finished board, so all good shapers bailed. Then he brought in more shaping machines, spooled up production so the warehouse always has 1,000 boards ready to ship.
And he cut glasser pay as well, and uses cheaper glass.
CI now has more non-surfers working on the boards then surfers.
So if you want a mass produced board probably made by a non-surfer, go for it.
Or you could order a real custom from one of the excellent shapers Cali is flush with.
The good news is that Burton is trying to sell the CI operation now that he figured out the biz is chump change compared to his snowboard industry share. So maybe a perfect time for Kelly and Al to partner up and buy it back on the cheap, and have some fun with it .

Interesting! I didn't know Jake was the owner of CI and using the snowboard production model with surfboard production. Jake is from VT!

No.

I finally bought a milled board, a Rusty Slayer after only EVER buying custom hand shaped boards. I did however request it at a odd size and an elliptical tail. Still custom basically. This Slayer, is by far, the best board I've ever ridden. I'm so attached to it, I had to make sure I could always get an exact copy of it if something happens to it, they have a digital file saved with all my particulars and can recreate it at any point in the future.

this is a great thread. but here's my main question:
Sure, CI has pros on the team, they make great boards, that's fine. They use a machine to make the boards. As far as I'm concerned, that's great. Perfect repeatability of designs. Great thing.
But they're cranking these things out in 15 minutes, putting a relatively cheap glass job, cheap sand job (not polished, no graphics, no pin lines, etc). So then logically, it should be cheaper than a hand shaped board, right?
How long does it take to hand shape a board? A nice glass job, maybe some color, etc. There's a huge difference in what you get, and the time it takes to make VS what CI is selling for the same price.
And I can't really come to terms with that.

@keels, the flyer is an awesome shape, which is why I stole the dimensions and had a shaper friend of mine copy it for my dimensions.

Bam, CI shape without the brand, thus not looking like a deuche!

Best Boards? not in my opinion. Ive had two CI's and neither one lasted very long or seemed very special. I'm sure they put a lot of RD into their boards with team members, are very consistent with their shaping tolerances and probably the most successful (read profitable) shapers ever. Ever wonder why most larger surfshops only carry 5 brands of boards? Please correct me if I am wrong but, I was told by a friend and surfshop manager, that to carry/sell CI surfboards (along with Hobie, robert august, Lost, surftech and firewire), they cannot sell other manufacturers surfboards....... some kind of strategic alliance or whatever but if this is true............ I think its pretty lame and hurts a lot of smaller and local shapers. This area is filled with alot of great shapers and cant see why anyone would look elsewhere for their board.

@Kma... Although I don't know about this particular instance, this type of practice is common in the sports industry. Isn't that illegal (in theory anyway)?

@ waggy your statement kind of contradicts itself no?.....Im kinda hoping someone else chimes in to weather they can confirm this.......my source is a pretty good one, we actually got into the conversation due to a manufacturers defect of a CI, and asked him if he could order me a Harbour surfboard instead and he told me he couldnt do to this sales arrangement, maybe they get some financial incentive to be an exclusive dealer?......... Im sure everything CI and others do is legal and makes business sense........just kinda rubs me the wrong way and seems to limit board choices at a lot of shops.

Even if CI is designing the best shapes, surfboard shape is in no way copyrighted or patented. Also there are only so many factors going on-rocker, bottom, rails, etc. Any shaper worth his salt could look at a board produce a replica such as @broseidon suggests. You could also get a a better glassing schedule or go for a custom eps/epoxy that will last longer-I prefer that route on my custom boards adds about $100 to a custom job but lasts much, much longer.

Al Merrick is primarily known as refiner and not an innovator as far as surfboard design. IMO Most of CI's interesting boards were thought up by Machado, Slater, or Dane! If you compare a company like ....Lost and look at all the cool, crazy boards they make and the different materials they give a try it seems CI is pretty conservative for such a big market player.

@captainka - that's really cool that your shaper surfed with you- that sounds like a truly custom experience!

I never would spend 700 - 800 on a board, I usually troll the used racks or craigslist. After a while most surfers know what dimensions they like,

I get the feeling this discussion is really about whether people feel comfortable with their business practices. Any competent shaper could reverse-engineer a CI board Soviet style. But every shop we enter tends to have CI boards everywhere (or Rusty ten years ago, etc). These are brands. The products have to be viable. But the brand (marketing, sales agreements, manufacturing scale) is what you are buying with a CI board.

It might make your local shaper puke if you ask him/her to copy another board. But it would probably work (given a few tries).

I actually got Josh Hall to shape a copy of my old Skip Frye board after it moved on to the great pacific garbage patch. But in this case, Josh had been an apprentice in Skip's shop, so the style was similar.

@kma, you're right, my statement was kind of vague, I was referring to the surf industry in general, particularly the major surfwear companies.

The 'best' board is the board that is the best for you.

The quest is to find that said board - regardless of price, number of fins, color of resin tint, FCS vs. Futures, single, 2+1, 5-fin set up, shaper, blank material or brand.

Kelly Slater can surf every one of my boards better then I can. Thats factual. But I bet he can ride his boards better then he can ride my boards.

I buy whatever board this guy tells me to buy.

(I'd been saving this for the next porn blast but given the oh so serious nature of this thread I had no choice but to deploy it now)

dyin...a true classique.

Guitars, handguns, ammo, large capacity magazines and a hairy beer belly...oh my gawd that guy is sooo hawt!

Worth noting: It's all paint guns & Guitar Hero guitars.

Kook, I dont really know what trolling is, but get out from under that bridge, you old troll. Why do you feel the need to ruin every decent thread with your senseless recycled drivel?

wrt the OP, Ive never owned a CI, but I do know that back in the day before machine shapes, the name shapers definitely produced a finer, more consistent product. Even with the machines, board performance isnt just about the base shape, but really in the fine details that occur during sanding (primarily with the rails and bottom contour). If its true CI lost its experienced shapers then I bet youd find the competition's boards just as good or even better. Most of the CI shapes are too thin for OB anyways.

I'm selling a barely-ridden 6'4" Flyer II in mint condition for $500 OBO. No dings or dents. Bought off the rack in Santa Cruz for about $650. I'm paring my quiver down and just don't ride this board enough. Contact me for photos and more details.

@cbrody: FWIW, I also hate the knee-jerk hasselofication, but really enjoyed mr. guns n' guitars. Go figure.

KoK is a man of the 'Net, and as such, you just have to deal with it.

OK, I'll try and live and let live, rather than be grumpy and complain. Its kinda like surfing the beach since the hipsters came along... I still have my grumpy days, but its been alot better since I moved from denial and anger to acceptance and love.

and back on topic, there are companies that make their retailers sign agreements to not sell the competition's product, and also regulate the price point. A while ago, I worked for Callaway going around to golf shops and busting them for selling Big Berthas at a discount. Basically Callaway would stop selling wholesale to anyone they found violating their agreements.

@burro, its an old pic worth a chuckle but just way off subject

Look at it this way, poor King's gotta search through a lotta man pics to post just the one we see on the site. He's the real victim here.

LOLFRISCCCOOOOOOOO

In my experience CI's tend to ding and crack more easily. I think they have thinner glass jobs to be a little bit lighter, which might be worth while for pro's who don't buy their boards but they don't last long enough. I've been riding stretch's and a simon anderson and both are just as good.

Get a clue.
99% of boards are machine milled/hand finished, that's just the name of the game.
This method insures the most accurate translation of a random set of dimensions into the desired shape, as well as the only way to most closely replicate a 'magic board'.
This talk of some spiritual connection you have with your shaper, i mean, yea, i like the idea of that as well.
But if you break it down, it's really represents the desired feeling of to have exited the tyro period , to one where you know how you surf and know what you want from your next board (or think you do). In the end you want to be stoked, and ordering a 'hand-shaped custom' feeds into that narrative.
You are stoked, your shaper is stoked to make it for you (or at least pretends to be), and you feel a part of this big, cosmic, surfing circle (though your magic hand shape will probably still be milled/hand finished).
In reality, more shops would carry more local shapes, if they indeed had the market for such boards. But there is often a limit to how many of these boards can be produced, and how effective said shapers full range of boards actually is.
Not to mention that, with the local shaper having much lower output/longer turnaround, there is no real incentive to only sell boards in the local shop. Why not just sell boards out of the factory, drop the mark-up, and get more people on your boards? Meanwhile the shop can't figure out why the same boards, with a $75 mark-up, are not moving.
CI, Lost, Rusty et al would offer a shop a more consistent product, access to a greater inventory of production boards, and a commitment to the shop as one of their core clients.
Do I want to pay $800 for a board?
Certainly not.
But surfboards have been one of the few manufactured (hand?) products whose price has not moved significantly until the last 8 years or so.
That cost increase though is based more on an increased cost for materials, labor and overhead than it does an arbitrary price gouging of anyone happy to fool himself into thinking he can surf like Slater.
CI's are great boards, as are so many others.
On being 'too thin for OB', don't quote me, but i'm pretty certain that you can get one with increased thickness.
To the guy riding a '7' Flyer in double/triple overhead surf', unless its actually a Flyer II, i'd say that that is pretty heroic...or deadly, depending on how you're bent. A Flyer (wide squash) will work better in the head high mush than in the aforementioned conditions.
But what do i know, right...
Like wine, the best surfboard is really the one that YOU like the best.

Ive surfed Pearson Arrow. I think they're good boards. But all i surf is CI, and not because people tell me too, rather, they are the best boards in the world.

ha ha! most of this is hilarious! holy shit!