Dorkreport and the Us VS them theory

In one of the previous report vs no report posts I said that I think there's a certain amount of wanting to feel the victim on both sides.

Some reporters like to feel like their freedom of speech is being trampled on by people who don't want reports and some no-reporters want to feel like every bad day or crowded lineup is something intentionally directed at them by the internet.

I don't think anyone in the thread reacted to stokereport.net angrily, I think everyone thought it was pretty dang funny. I did. I think @dorkreport following surftweeters is also funny.

As long as no ones hurling insults or being a dick, it's no big deal. Unfortunately there are people on both sides who WANT to feel like the other side is hurling insults or being a dick even when there's nothing going on. And I'm not singling @dorkreport out on feeling like people are ganging up on him, I've seen it from people on the pro-report side too. And tehre has been some insult hurtling and dickishness too. The dickisness is the kind of stuff that gets voted down, not the dissent as much as the name calling. Sometimes the pro-report victims do voting down of their own on things that aren't attacks and shouldn't be voted down (imo), but for the most part it's attacks and insults that there is intolerance for.

I'm sure this will soon stir up the tired argument of us versus them that causes those kind of victim feelings. Everyone relax, try to be a courteous and positive surfer, and enjoy the ocean (when this storm passes anyway).

So just to clarify either you are with us or against us, report on every spot or beat it non-report kook? Either you are a Stoke Report local or you are not. I've felt this vibe before, but I was sitting on a surfboard under a large red bridge.

Good one @acrarer.

IMO @dorkreport is a clone and a troll (and not a very good one). The dood calls people out by name (via tweets, comments on his web page, or otherwise); he's trolling for attention.

It may have gone 404, but check this... Dorkreport/Mitchell, why mention John by name then include this image: http://stokereport.net/johnny-cash-finger.jpg What's your point? Are you 'us' or 'them'? Is this aggro spirit or just a new/different point of view?

Dood, have some effing < muffs > PARTS < / muffs > and put an effing viewpoint onto the site and evolve out of your troll/clonedom. And now you have some advice column on your web page? http://www.formspring.me/dorkreport Ha ha?

Why can't we all just get along?

If SR is like most public online communities, a small percentage (<10%) of readers of this site make up the vast majority of public comments. Other data points, like log analysis or thumbs up/down may provide some clues on what the broader the community thinks, but in my opinion it's still unclear what the majority of readers think about this issue.

> StokeReport is primarily about surf reporting
The above statement doesn't apply to me. I read this site for the Rants - it's kind of like an aggregator of surf-related news for me.

SR, ideally, should reflect the community it's attempting to serve. The mantra among successful Internet businesses is "listen to your users". While SR isn't a business and is free to pursue its own agenda, I'm guessing the creator isn't spending his free time on this site in order to piss people off. And thus he's open to listening.

How about polling users on this issue? Like everyone else, I'm tired of the useless back and forth that has now gotten very personal. Let's find a solution, and that starts with having a good read on ALL of your users (not just the loudest ones).

Some detailed suggestions:

* As every poll taker knows, the exact wording of the question matters a lot. Off the top of my head: Should Stokereport provide surf reports for Bay Area breaks other than Ocean Beach and Linda Mar? I'm making a BIG assumption that OB and LM reports are ok with most people, but if that assumption is too much, then we need a different question.

* Run the poll for at least a week, maybe two or three. Not everyone checks this site every day. Make it prominent.

* Registration required to vote. Obviously, one vote per member. There are a few ways to discourage ballot stuffing (IP address etc) that should suffice.

* Keep the results hidden until the poll has completed. You don't want the early returns to influence the later returns.

* Include an open text field for suggestions.

If this is too much work, there are free poll-taking services out there.

Even the best sites don't know exactly what their users want (see Google Buzz, various Facebook gaffes). Sometimes you just gotta ask.

@tedm315. well said. +1 on avoiding any personal attacks.

i love to hear any feedback. the wonderful thing about stokereport is, that anyone can post there. i encourage anyone to construct whatever poll they're interested in (there are lots of free services to let you do this) and then post a rant on stokereport linking to the poll.

having said that, stokereport.com is primarily about surf reporting. there was a reason that i didn't call it stokerants :)

I like this place. I like the posts, peeps and funny shit too. If it makes anyone feel better I have never EVER surfed a place because it was reported@Stoke. I do that homework with swellwatch, surfline and so on. I think you all are a great bunch who like to have fun (some more then others) and just share a small part of life we all have in common.
tracey is right "Don't be a dick" simple as that. Really.

First off, I am not a "troll" and i'm not trying to be "negative". i'd like to respond to stokereports comment that anyone can post on here. i made my first and only comment on this site, other than this one, a couple of months ago and got booted off here for the next two months. i can at least access the site now but my original login is banned. i made a comment regarding someones rant about being a big wave surfer after charging the beach for a couple seasons and apparently hurt a few peoples feelings. so its not really that anyone can post here, its that you can post here as long as you play nice and live in your fantasy world. wait, i'm really not trying to be negative. this is just reality, call a kook a kook. there is nothing wrong with that, i was one too, we all were at some point. this site makes OB look like a bunch of hippies paddling out holding hands and waxing each others boards. you moved here two years ago and surf everyday even if its good or not? thats great, your still not a local and may be a kook, know your place in the lineup. if everyone on here is really surfing as much as they say well then we all know how crowded its been this year and that tensions have been rather high. i've seen several instances of ignorant kooks and dick locals this year getting into it. that is the reality. i'm not trying to be a dick i just want to help educate everyone and enjoy surfing my favorite beach in the whole world. hopefully this doesnt get me kicked off for another few months.

Lol @ overit2, I remember your comment, and everyone concluded immediately that you were a troll trying to stir up shit. Congratulations, you got the treatment reserved for trolls trying to stir up shit. I'm glad you're back for another shot, but don't try to play the victim role because you were silenced by the evil StokeReport overlords.

As it more or less turns out, anyone _can_ post here. And as much as we tend to engage in groupthink from time to time (something which I don't mind being pointed out, even though it's a feature of any internet community), the people who depart from the party line don't get banned. Pete Swedra hasn't been banned, even though he's been a vocal critic of real-time surf reporting (and his posts/comments get downvoted). Mahu hasn't been banned, even though he's posted a few very critical rants.

You got banned for trolling. Cry more.

(For those interested, it's comment #2 right here: http://stokereport.com/report/4111)

I'm surprised I wasn't wrapped up in that last comment :) Honestly, I have a love/hate relationship with stoke report.

I love that people, esp newcomers are so stoked on spreading surf love and I'm all for continuing to build an sf surfing community. I also love the convenience of stoke report as a technology aficionado.

What I don't like about stoke report is the way in which people talk as if they own the beach and think they can charge and should charge all conditions regardless of their experience and skills. I also find it offensive that stoke report seems to have a tone suggesting that all surfers should act like stoke reporters. I simply do not agree and that simply is not how most surfing communities have operated for a long time, right or wrong.

I don't mean to put any words in people's mouth but you guys have to realize that people have been surfing sf since the 50's/60's and some of them are still active watermen. My dad for instance has been surfing the beach for over 40 years. It often seems like stoke reporters completely disregard that factor and that a community existed here long before stoke report.

For long time ob surfers its hard not to see stoke report as a threat and frustrating even though it has a lot of great attributes and wonderful people contributing. And as a long time surfer, I’m both involved with but feel conflicted about stoke report.

This is something I can certainly live with and any of my more negative or ill tempered posts have only been in the effort of encouraging this community to tread lightly on certain issues in the interest of respecting the ENTIRE sf surfing community and continuing to foster positive stoke report development.

I'm not sure who is familiar with niceness.org, but for a long time it was an awesome reporting/surf blog that I happened to love. On the other hand, it was mostly a group of newcomer sf surfers and after a while sf locals felt it their place to degrade that community. I would hate to see stoke report go in that direction.

I'm hoping that by straddling both sides of the argument, this sheds a little light on some individual's actions, including my own. and that when people talk negatively about stoke report its not necessarily because they're jerks or locals, its because they come from a completely different but valid point of view. Just as valid as stoke report's...diff strokes for diff folks.

I give kool-aid a HUGE THUMBS UP. Not because I see eye to eye with what he/she is saying but because it's written well, has a point, and isn't laced with passive-aggressive nonsense. Clear point, well stated, well written, and attack free.

Again: BIG thumbs up. Not because of the message (which is interesting and I'm selfishly ignoring to make a point, which is total bullshit and I suck, sorry) but because it was delivered well.

People who post dick comments and then claim "Censorship!" and "That's not real life!" are idiots. Yes, you're a dick. Nobody likes you. Go away. Why are you surprised?

I'm not sure how there could be any confusion.

Kool-aid you're currently +7 and I hope you get voted even higher. You should be. This doesn't have to be Hippy Hill. Just use the same good manners here that keeps shit cool in the lineup. I would be stoked to surf with you.

overit2: I'm surfing OB Saturday morning with a visitor from Canada and another Stoke Reporter and I'm totally up for you to join. DOH+ on the menu. Probably ###### 8:00-ish.

Interested?

@overit2: welcome back, and yes, anyone can post here. as i said in my recent rant: "it allows any member of our online surfing community to get top placement on our home page and encourages users to vote up content that they like and vote down content that they don't. automatic algorithms remove content that is heavily voted down, and eventually limit the actions of any user who's contribution (as vetted by the community) is predominantly negative. the only editors of the site are its users."

Wow, I'm a dick, nobody likes me and go away...

If that is not "trying to stir up shit", then i'm not sure what is. in fact it is just downright rude. apart from my whining about getting kicked off did i really say anthing that bad? did i single anybody out and call them a dick? no. look, I noticed in my last post that i didnt state one of my main points for responding, I like Stokereport.com. i really do, maybe its a bit more love/hate but i do like it. i have no problem with all of us trying to get along and having fun surfing. to all the newcomers to surfing, welcome. to be honest, i wish there were less people surfing but what can i do? i'm sure i pissed off all the older guys when i started surfing and crowded up their breaks. i've been here long enough now that i'm not a newcomer but i still wasnt born and raised here and never will be able to say that. i remember when the beach had less people and had a different vibe and i was the kook and got hassled as soon as i pulled up. in a few years my kids will be the new guys paddling out. my interest in posting here is to provide a different point of view than what i normally see on here, one that i think is more representative of what its like out in the water.

i agree with tcannon on the one point of kool-aid making a nice post but really, your post was rude and mean-spirited. how am i an idiot for claiming censorship and the internet not being the real world? its true.

ok, relax. i'm not trying to start any back and forth thing here. i enjoy stokereport and i liked kook-aids comments about different angles. i think i have been surfing here for a bit longer than most of you and am just trying to provide that angle. by the way, i'm not claiming any more right to the waves out here than anyone else, i'm not claiming to be a local, nor a big wave surfer. if i've been surfing here longer than you, good, if i've surfed bigger waves than you, ok. thats the beauty of OB, its a big wide beach break that most of the time fits us all in. its not santa cruz and its not malibu, but do we really want it to be? i doubt it. if either of my two previous messages have felt negative, it was out of frustration of having been here for so long and having put my time in only to see the latest batch of newcomers, who will end up leaving in a couple years anyway, show a lack of respect and humility to the beach and the people who have been here. wow, that was a long sentence, i apologize for my poor writing skills.

tcannon, i appreciate your offer to join you and your friend from canada on saturday but i'm fairly certain the beach will be utter poo and i think i'll pass (7.5ft @ 15 sec w/ winds W @ 5 to 10). if it does happen to get good, i'll be there. and please post your report as that is really why i check the site, not to ramble on about pointless arguments.

am i the only one who never seems to find a crowd issue at OB? it might be that i tend to do the dawn thing, which by its very nature keeps the line-up pretty thin. or given my upbringing down in socal i may just be used to way, way more aggressive folks in the water. i probably surfed 80+ days during the fall and winter and i never saw a single tense moment in the water. not one. it's not like i'm ghandi spreading love and petals in the line-up, but i'm wondering where and when the tensions are rising? i get it for places like FP and Deads with their tiny takeoff zones. loads of tension to go around there. @overit2 are you talking a particular peak at ###### or ######?

i'm not talking socal crowded but it is more crowded than it used to be. if you grew up down south then i'm sure OB looks like there are no locals and everyone is super mellow. and no not talking about ######, ######'s fun and has its moments but ###### really is only for surfing when too lazy to battle the middle. although we had a few days this winter when the inside of south ###### started working and that got a bit tense with all the ususal suspects packed into such a small area. as for ######, i stopped surfing down there a long time ago. i know it gets fun but i'm over the scene. no, i'm talking more about the middle on those hh sunny days when everyone is out and you can't find a place to park on lowers. also, one of my "back in the day" thoughts when you mention dawnpatrol is that when i first showed up here if you paddled out before 9 am even on a good day, you were almost always alone. these days i see guys suiting up in the dark when its chest high and onshore. anyways, i think it does have something to do with you dawn thing and being used to the more aggressiveness of socal that maybe you havent noticed it.

yep. agree with you on that and your points make sense to me. i'm a ###### fan and i find that the early morning go-outs are pretty sparse except for a handful of highly coordinated stokereporters.