Enough

RE: #1 - Don't be Dick

Dick who? :)

how about leaving off grey whale. the rest of the manifesto sounds fine to me.

I usually surf MCBL, I believe this is how it's to be referred to as now, but am unsure now as to weather I/we can, or not post pictures because of the "Secret Spots" rule. Thus my question is, who decides and determines what and where a "Secret Spot" is? And since I regularly surf MCBL, am I/we not to mention/show pics of the various breaks at MCBL too?

For me, since I am not a dawn patroller, I get there about noonish, and don't post the conditions of my session, and or pics until I get home.

And what are we now allowed to, or not post as "new rant(s)" too? Everything has been deleted, and it appears that we are now walking on thin ice. Even though I respect your decision to say "Enough."

I frequent a Surf Talk site of a board maker in So Cal, and he has a set of rules that if you don't abide by, he has the option of removing the post, and or the ban the person. So if you could make clearer proposal #2 I would appreciate it, because I am not only a surfer, but a freelance photographer, and enjoy sharing my pics, and seeing others.

Lastly, is there something wrong with the SR home page? I can't seem to see the usual top part anymore.

Thanks, Gary

I'd prefer to see these breaks left off the list:

MCFC Marin - Fort ###### / ######
This place is out of the way. I personally have invested a lot of time and gas to get to know it better and it would bum me out to see couch potatoes poach it. It also gets crowded easily.

SMGW San Mateo - Grey Whale Cove
I never surf here, but I dunno it just feels off the beaten path and should stay that way.

MCPR Marin - Point Reyes
If you make the effort to get out to this place and brave the sharks, you deserve to surf it without a crowd.

SMRW San Mateo - Rockaway
This break gets crowded very easily.

@tedm315: I've never seen Rockaway crowded except for when they have a contest.

Despite that, Rockaway is almost an extension of Lindamar. Nearly everyone who surfs Lindamar drives right by Rockaway on the way to LM. I can't see that an internet report has much of an effect on that place.

I'm hardly the person who's going to defend Rockaway, but in my experience it definitely gets crowded. I'm not arguing that it's not an easy spot to check.

@superadmin, thanks, appreciate your response to that because I was hoping it wasn't my computer. And I see that my older posts are still there.

My honest opinion based on 20+ years of surfing in the Bay Area:

Stoke Report will continue to anger long-time local surfers as long as reports are posted on spots that do not already have cameras. Right or wrong, established local surfers believe that reports on these spots increase crowding at these spots.

With this in mind, I'd say the only spots listed above that are fair game are:

SCSL Santa Cruz - Steamer Lane
SCPP Santa Cruz - Pleasure Point
SMLM San Mateo - Linda Mar
SFOB San Francisco - Ocean Beach

I know that this isn't particularly rational, but I will reiterate that you are not dealing with rational people.

Do we want to discuss real time reports vs post session sharing?

I've noticed many stokereports come in after session so it might not be an issue, but some folks have expressed concern over real time reports or pre-session check ins.

Are there spots people would prefer to limit to only after sesh reports instead of real time?
Are there spots that are fair game for brief check ins? (ie "drove by SMLM, blown out crap")
Should we define what an "ideal" post is vs "less than ideal" vs "avoid"?

Or am I opening on unwieldy can of worms (rules) that would be impossible to wrangle/enforce?
It seems that self regulation of realtime/post sesh does seem to happen naturally, but if there's an overwhelming opinion in either direction this would be a time to share it. (respectfully of course)

I see immense value in duckdive's am OB reports and would like to continue to see them occurring real time/pre-session.

Surfline and Surfpulse also do an AM report that I find helpful and I don't think risk crowding. The dawn patrol folks are already out based on last night's buoy data and this mornings personal stoke...a real time dawn report won't increase/decrease the number of faces in the lineup at 6:30am.

I can only speak for myself as one type of SR reader, but value I get from this site is from hearing stories about everyone's sessions and connecting with people that I then surf with in real life. I enjoy reading that Sticker and H20man's managed to get a few great waves in the morning, or that Greacen was souling it up on some logwaves somewhere. It keeps me stoked even when I'm shackled to my work or travelling to far off surfless spots. Very literal reports on the "stoke" vs reports on conditions :)

Also, I'm fine with listing Rockaway under the umbrella of Pacifica/Linda Mar. I have seen it get crowded and if we're treating OB as one big unit, might as well treat all of pacifica as one too.

However, when it comes to Steamer Lane, should Cowells be separate? For the sake of folks worried that SR is sending kooks and beginners into their lineup, it might be helpful to distinguish between the kiddie pool and Steamer Lane proper. Cowells is permacrowded anyway.

I agree with ApocalypseNow and Ted315. Larger spots that can handle people are fine. Could be asking for trouble drawing attention to particular spots. Just my $.02

ApocalypseNow is right. That should be the criteria if you want to avoid any more anger/tension/confrontations over the site. There are enough people out there that are not stoked about the reports to warrant this "correction".

Was it something I said?

I really hope that this is constructive. I am all in favor of us regulating our own, including banning members who tread on the toes of locals on certain matters, in particular reporting on sensitive surf breaks.

However, I would really love to see a single olive branch extended from those who have been very deliberately fomenting anger and violence against this site and its users because, as someone who has been threatened who has _nothing_ to do with reporting on any sensitive spot (nor do I defend it), I do not feel like I ought to be watching my back the next time I go to Ocean Beach.

As it stands, there are people with serious beef right now whose beef is based much more on who SR's members are than what we do. As long as nothing is done to resolve this, I fear that our (necessary) self-regulation will not be enough to prevent violence or, at the very least, some seriously bad vibes. It is necessary, IMHO, that some sort of contact be effected, in person, in a suitably neutral manner, before we forget that we're all human beings (and all surfers).

My brunch invitation still stands. I will talk to anyone in person who feels wronged by this site or its users. In particular, I want to meet with Chris Wilson. I think we have some things to work out, preferably over some delicious slow food at a yuppie eatery near you.

Call me: (415) 325-4007

Tehdely, were these threats of violence on this site, or in some more direct manner? I've paid pretty close attention to this, and though there are some subtle overtones by some of the posters, I can't recall seeing any direct threats of violence. I haven't been posting for very long, but I've been reading for quite a while.

I personally disagree with your paragraph where you said it has more to do with the members than what they do. I can only speak for myself, but I don't have a problem with anyone on this site that I have met in person, though I would disagree with how some of them have reported/ranted. Conversely, I have some friends outside of this site that do similar kind of “reporting” to their friends (texting real time reports to each other, sending pics of secret spots, etc.) that I disagree with. So, for me personally, it has nothing to do with the person, but more with the etiquette.

For me, I don’t feel “wronged” by anyone on this site, but I just feel like some people aren’t as aware how (dare I say) “powerful” this site is. I mean, the fact that some people seem upset should be an indication. But I think a lot of the users are SO STOKED to be out there surfing, often with a group of other Stokereporter friends, that they can’t think outside their own personal box about how their actions might actually UNSTOKE someone else. It’s hard, I know, when you’re soooooo happy, to realize that you might actually be bumming someone else out. I think it pays to be respectful of everyone’s viewpoints, even if some of them might be particularly negative ones.

A good start, but I believe that minds could be made up at this point (especially after the surferrag article) - we may never be without strife...hopefully stoke is enough

Happy Mother's Day everyone. Give mom a call and say hi.

It's probably best not to bring this whole thing up with mom.

I surf Pleasure Point, Cowells, Linda Mar, Bolinas--the competition for waves is intense occasionally, especially in Santa Cruz, especially on big days, that's part of the sport, and I get waves. I've surfed a little more than ten years, as much as 5 days a week. What is decided here--about which spots are ok to report, and which aren't--doesn't affect me personally.

My question is: who exactly deserves to have more waves, or surf at a particular spot, and why? Is "respect" only something some people have to give and others expect to get? Who is local--how do I know who I should pass the extra waves to? If I show up at dawn to surf a particular spot every morning, how long before I'm a local? Or do I have to be friends with someone?

Dealing with beginners and newcomers is part any sport you choose to do in a public place--like sharing tennis courts. The ocean actually belongs to everyone, and there's something very unsettling and anti-democratic about deciding who gets to keep what part of it to himself. Deciding that some spots are off-limits to this site may be politically expedient and status quo and limit violence by allowing some to maintain an illusion--it may even be the right thing to do right now--but that still doesn't make it right.

here's my 2 cents:

1. don't be a dick. a moderator (or two or three) have the option of issuing a warning, removing a post, or banning. moderator's site, moderator's choice.

2. all surf reports fall under a county heading only. ie marin, sf, sm, or sc. if the poster wants to provide more detail then it's up to them. that way there is no 'off limits' and the option to be vague is the default.

me thinks that keeps it pretty simple.

Actually I like minyan's idea a lot. I pretty much get all the info I need to figure out what spot did what on a particular day just from the LM and SFOB reports, and I haven't even been surfing as long as a lot of people here.

i've often used the 'head in the sand' analogy for the haters against technology+surf reporting. I now realize that it's my head that's been in the sand thinking they could be persuaded or reasoned with. These measures are vain because there's no pleasing them. They feel a false sense of entitlement and feel justified as self appointed wave cops. The sad thing is they win in the end because normal people can't stand dealing with them. Their dick personalities keep people off their waves and sabottage positive communities like stokereport. They win, not because they're right but because they make unbearable company.

@Acrarer is right. Hand over the lunch money SR. Can you really water down a report to "I went surfing in CA today. There were waves. It was fun. Saw several StokeReporters."
I'll admit that I remain somewhat conflicted on this topic. On one hand, I understand the localism point of view, but I also love Free Speech and this is censorship. Almost like a Taliban thing. I don't like censorship. Nobody should. I've said it before, but the fact that this site even exists is surprising in such a city as SF with all of its reported localism. But, the internet isn't going away. These arguments are always going to surface. It's part of being a controversial site. It shouldn't be a surprise to the founder of StokeReport that this criticism will always be there. Can there really be a happy medium? Or is it all or nothing on the reports?
Hello StokeRant?
Or is this just Surf Conservatives vs Surf Liberals? I might be a waffling moderate because I like this site and hate crowds. Hmmmmm....

hey, how about making it even more simple. all posts fall under either rant or report. no location choices for a report. if someone wants to share their stoke about a particular session, they are free to divulged as much or as little as they feel. my problem with the current report setup is that i'm forced to choose a spot, regardless of where i surfed or if i want to share that much info.

@friscohio, watering down a location does not water down the stoke. there are many creative ways of sharing. examples:
"despite the south winds and large swell, found some great waves in SF today..."
"took a drive south and scored an empty little beach, head high bowls over a shallow sand bar..."
"smlm was as good as i've seen it yesterday..."

personally, it's all the other details besides just a simple surf report that make me stoked to go and find a few good waves. cursory surf reports from the most popular spots seem uninspired and lazy.

one thing i'm constantly reminded of is the fact that we live in one of the greatest waves zones on the planet. there is a decent rideable wave somewhere within 2hrs of SF virtually every day of the year. very few surfers are as fortunate as we are. well narrated vague reports inspire exploration, and in the 15 years i've been surfing this area i find somewhere new every year.

This entire thread may be a case of people with too much time on there hands and not enough time in the water due to 2 consecutive weeks of blown out surf....

@Acrarer nicely summed up weeks of rants. i've kept my head down cuz, imho, there's a lot more to worry about than posting reports on waves in sf. you want to talk about crowds or locals, try surfing in socal! but the same thing happened on e's website after a very small number of rotten eggs dragged the vibe into the gutter and physically threatened him. guess we'll all be growing out beards so the "locals" know we're part of their surf-taliban. better buy a nor-cal sticker to plaster on my car....

How about we just start more forums and tell the thugs/whiners to grow up. The Internet is here to stay, and some of us believe we actually have a right to share information.

An example alternative forum, just for kicks: [old url deleted] actually try this one, which lets you upload images http://stokezombie.lefora.com/

Not nearly as cool, I realize, but neither would there be any attempt to self-censor.

It's not just crowds that bother the locals, it's the fact that a lot of the people in the crowd can't surf very well and don't know how to get out of the way of the more experienced surfers. If it's crowded and everyone knows how to surf, it's a totally different vibe in the water.

@nalu if it's crowded and everyone knows how to surf, you'll never catch a wave. mother ocean and the bay area spots tend to regulate themselves. i don't see any beginners paddling out at ob on a hh+ day. but if you have a problem with crowds, most time the currents are your friend and you can watch them drift away. let's all go to madpie's new forum!

The surf sucks for the next 4 months - post to your heart's content until Fall. But once Fall comes, busy yourself with surfing and not naming names.

There are webcams, wind reports, bouy reports, etc. at everyone's disposal to inform surfers when/if they want to go surfing. Go travel and get some perspective. If you do, ask yourself whether you are gonna chime in to SR.com and claim 'its head high and perfect in Mainland Mex' or 'just scored perfect barrels in Western El Salvador with only 4 dudes out'. Better yet, how about dropping some 'Just scored Makaha, 5-6 ft and only locals out there - a total snoozefest so get on it...'

You're all armed with the tools you need to make the call. Just ask yourself what you want out of your surf community. Should it wide open and exposed, or should it be about discovery? No one is entitled.......no one!

@nalu: the place to take care of/inform kooks mucking up your spot in the water is actually IN THE WATER. It's a waste of time trying to do it here. If someone is dense enough to not learn by watching and cluelessly do the wrong things, they sure aren't gonna learn anything here.

Southern California has a crowding problem that's 100 times worse than the one here and there isn't really much of an internet reporting community in SoCal. It doesn't have anything to do with the Internet. Cyberspace doesn't mimic real life. Trying to score dates on match.com isn't close to the same as going out to a club. Having phone sex on a 900 number isn't the same as real sex. Racing Monza on your Playstation 3 isn't the same as driving a Formula 1 car. And the internet isn't the place to try to teach someone surf etiquitte.

The right place is IN THE WATER.

@Kooktastic: The reason it's not happening in the water is because StokeReporters behave perfectly fine in the water, which is why I can't name a single person from this site who's had a bad experience out there.

It's just, now that we're the enemy, someone has gone ahead and attached every negative stereotype about every kind of surfer they don't like to the users of this site. Henceforth, we are all misbehaving kooks with no manners. Repeat it enough times and it sounds true!

I think everyone’s attitude in the water is pretty much fine, although once I overheard a stokereporter say quietly to his friend, "Follow that guy; he seems to know where to sit." I thought to myself, "Come on, buddy - do your own homework." I also had one guy tell me directly, "I probably wouldn't have paddled out if I didn't see you catching some!" That's fine, but did you have to paddle up right next to me when the entire beach is pretty much empty?

I think those are problems mostly attributable to greenness, though. Once they gain a bit more experience and have that happen to them a few times, they’ll see it’s maybe not so cool. Also, occasionally there are the problems with people paddling out in conditions/crowds that might be a bit beyond their skill level, but they will learn about that in time as well.

So, yeah, I don’t think the problem is so much with how people behave in the water as on this site, and the resulting effect on the lineups. If I get a barrel at ###### and someone who was checking it before work saw it quickly texted to Stokereport, “Some dude just got SHACKED at ###### – looks really good!” – I’d be pretty bummed if 10 guys showed up on that specific peak, you know? Even if those were 10 of the coolest dudes in the world, I’d still much rather surf by myself, especially if the rest of the beach is just as good and pretty much empty.

The only reason why surf spots get crowded is because there are more And more surfers in the area. This will only get worse no matter what stokereport does or doesn't do to regulate itself. And people will always be bitter about this. But if we're upsetting the natives, sure why don't we try to accomodate within reason. I'm down for some father stokereport laying down the smack. Kick people off, delete reports or comments, whatever it takes. Let's keep the stoke alive!

don't be a dick. True. Applies to most situations in life. Esp. here. And with that you have summarized the entire issue imho.

I mean isn't the war over? Those who try to conceal secret spots do so with folly. Anyone who has the explorer gene will find it. So why pretend there is such a thing?

I wanted to add something to my more one-sided report last night:

I love surfing, and and I especially love that moment when the waves and people come together with a kind of magic, and everyone has a smile on his or her face paddling back to the lineup, and everyone is happy, not just for the waves and fun they are having, but for the waves other people, strangers, are getting too. When I first ran across Stoke Report, it seemed to really capture that feeling, a kind of overflowing of generosity, and I have really appreciated it for that reason since then.

It seemed to stand in sharp contrast to the sparing, sometimes cryptic reports I was paying for at Surfline. Reporters I was paying for who couldn't bother to mention, as happened recently, that, duh, when the tide drops later in the day at Cowells, the "poor conditions" they were reporting will turn semi-epic.

Yes, I know how to read buoy and wind and tide charts, but there's something great about hearing another good-hearted surfer sharing his or her stoke about time in the water: the look of the waves, the feel of the sun and wind--it not only has more spirit, it is often more exact, and often helps me decide to pack my board and drive to the beach.

So I want to say thanks to SR, and that, no matter what spots it chooses to report on, I will appreciate it for its spirit, which is the very best part of surfing.

One last thing: It ought to be acknowledged in this discussion that there are no "secret spots." "Secret spots" is a euphemism for places so localized, other surfers are either afraid to paddle out, or just don't want the hassle. But most, if not all of them, are not "secret." They exist by threat of violence, period.

It is not surprising the surf industry perpetuates this tradition, just as any institution is required to perpetuate tradition. But, in the abstract, there is no moral argument that can stand against equal access for everyone. Maybe it's too soon, maybe another decade needs to go by...too bad.

Anyway I support anything SR decides to do, and hope it manages to keep its stoke, in spite of all.

this new version of stoke report is the worst! now its only a giant self-reflective rant...not even any surfing any more. Will the rest of the site come back? I hope so - as mentioned constantly/weeks ago - SR is not much different then surfline or other surf forecasting options (secret spots...blah blah) please please pretty please keep it alive here!

Sunday 8:12 AM Ocean Beach - poor surfing (Yo its windy!)

What EVER.

As one of stokereport's "usual suspects" I want to chime in, even though I usually stay away from conversations about localism and reporting. I've been pretty absent from this site lately, mostly because the surf has been absent as well, but I reported a ton back in the fall from my sessions at OB. I've gotten to meet a bunch of other stokereporters, whom I consider to be good people, but surf mostly with my non-SR surf buddies.

I appreciate the effort to create some standards for this site, because it definitely has gotten out of hand. I've had to examine my own standards as a reporter on this site over the last 6 months. I first started pretty willy-nilly, mentioning specific streets at OB, and giving reports almost immediately after I got out of the water. For the crowd thing, I can admit that it probably didn't help. There are a ton of factors contributing to crowds, but I can admit I was probably in that mix. However, I surf at other spots too, and tend to keep my mouth shut about those places, and they can still get crowded, with or without stokereport.

I've since mellowed out in my reporting not because someone charged up to me in the water accusing me of ruining their spot, nor from any comments I have read here, but because I had some good conversations with friends who I surf with a lot and respect about the whole social media and surfing thing. In short, I still see tremendous value in sharing the stoke, which I still believe is what this site is about. However, I also see that doing so may ruffle the feathers of some who don't see things the way I do. I can act how I want in my own house, but the ocean is everyone's to enjoy and people have different codes. I've surfed most of my life, grew up in the ocean, and learned "the rules" in my childhood, but, I still like sharing the stoke. I like sharing the waves, I like watching a guy pull into a barrel while I'm sitting there watching, even if it means that it wasn't me on the wave, I still enjoy seeing waves be ridden by people who love what they are doing. I see surfing as a privilege. But, I acknowledge the guys who see it differently, so I'm trying in my own way to find the happy medium. For me, that has been through being vague in location and allowing a few hours to pass before posting on conditions (which for OB often means posting after it has crapped out).

I hoot and holler in the line-up, I often call out guys for great waves when they're paddling back out after a good one, and I hoot and holler online as well. I'm idealistic and I know it and don't really care. I use my real name on this site and use my real name in the water. But I don't want to butt heads with the realists, so I've been mellowing. When someone's angry in the line-up I don't go out of my way to talk to him, so I've done the same here.

From the suggestions initially posted in this rant, I agree with all of them, except I too would take down a few spots, like the ones that crowd up or take some time to get to (Rockaway, Grey Whale Cove, ######, and Pt Reyes). To echo @tracey, I tend to favor delayed reports rather than real-time, with the exception of the AM report by @duckdive which I think we all appreciate....which is an eye-ball report from the dune, not one from the water, which at OB means a lot of difference.

I live out here and love this community (don't call myself a local, only been here for 4 years, but still am very attached to the place), know a lot of people on both sides of this fence, and want to continue to enjoy where I live and who I surf with, friends and strangers alike. I hope this moderation helps a bit. We'll see how this all turns out in 4 months when we actually have some waves to talk about. Thanks for indulging this long comment.

Let's get this back on track.

The person who runs this site has already made the decision to enforce community standards.

The intent of this thread is to weigh in on standards that will allow this site to continue and be beneficial, without pissing off the local community to the extent that violence ensues. This seems like a logical goal.

We are not discussing "right" vs. "wrong." That is a pointless discussion. Would you post up on a street corner in Hunter's Point, tell the guys standing there to fuck off, that the city has changed, that they are suffering from a false sense of entitlement? Probably not. Technically, you'd be "right" in telling them the sidewalk belongs to everyone. But it's not easy to explain anything when your teeth have just been knocked down your throat.

Perhaps it would be more useful to picture yourself as a European Colonist who moved to the New World in the 1600s. You are surrounded by beautiful natural resources - only trouble is, "savages" are already utilizing them. You are more educated, more technologically advanced, and more civilized. The "savages" are violent, seemingly amoral, and engage in rituals and rites which seem backward to you. What do you do?

If you're a Stoke Reporter, you tell the "savages" that you are right and they are wrong. You take their natural resources and tell them progress is inevitable. And then you wonder why the fuck that less-educated, morally inferior "savage" just removed your scalp.

@tehdely i'm sure your a nice guy but you are seriously going about this in the wrong way. A) this whole brunch thing is dumb and B) putting your number out there is just plain stupid. This last move is a prime example of the manner in which you stokereporters operate. you seem to be going through life with blinders on and are not aware of your actions. You think that this site is just few of your buddies hanging around after a surf but this is the internet, half of the people on here are probably transgendered, midgets from Dubai and not even surfers. i'm sorry someone has threatened you but you have been asking for it, i warned you before that this would happen. maybe you feel like you shouldn't have to watch your back at OB, but you should and that is the crux of your problem. its been said before on here, you can't reason with unreasonable people. this localism issue is just not negotiable, it just is.

@h finn please, surfing is not like sharing tennis courts. ok, yes the ocean belongs to everyone in the grand scheme of things but in terms of surfing, no it doesn't. why can't everyone understand that?

@kooktastic i don't want to have to take care of/inform kooks in the water at OB and nobody in Santa Cruz wants to do it at the lane or pleasures. now i'm not living in reality, but thats my dream. stay at linda mar and other places that are more suitable for "beginners".

@tehdely have you ever heard the saying that if your on a bus and you look around and don't see anyone that looks strange you are the strange one?

I actually like the site for the reports and not the rants, i think the rants are the bigger problem. the reports are the future and you can't stop the future. remember the backlash when cameras first started showing up? people were tearing them down and threatening the people that put them up. but now we all use them. notice how there are no cams north of the GG bridge? there is a reason for that, they don't want them. as for OB and SC, its already crowded so whatever. i think the main issue is the reports are being made by beginners (AKA kooks) and that rubs people the wrong way. the most prolific reporters seem to be rather new to surfing and i would say haven't earned the right to be reporting on the spot yet, let alone be surfing it. yes, i think that is the issue here. when someone posts how they paddled out in front of ###### and drifted down to ###### on a 8 ft log and got barreled on their one and only wave, i tend to question this person's experience level. if you don't understand what the problem is with this report, then you are part of the problem. this then makes me wonder what right do you have to post to the world how the surf was and that is what annoys me the most. and if i'm thinking this then other people must be too.

in the end, i am not trying to unstoke any of you. maybe its because i've been here long enough that i like the way things are. and you know, i get the same reaction when i go to santa cruz or some new spot that i haven't surfed before that most of you get. i've been yelled at by guys at santa cruz and burned by 13 yr olds in central america. the system works, sorry you guys don't like it but it works. also, notice how i didn't name drop where in central america i was, just said central america. this is just a part of surfing, it always has been and always will. there are a limited number of surf spots with a limited number of waves and an increasing population of surfers. you had a good surf this morning and you want to tell your close friends about it? OK fine, but why does everyone feel the need to broadcast how their surf was with an exact location to the entire internet? i'm not your friend. most people on here seem to think i'm a dick. so why tell me it was good in front of the second lot at ###### at 2:45 pm? just tell everyone the beach was good around midday. in 10 or 15 years some of you will be where i am and there will be some new kind of reporting system and you will read a bunch of reports from, obvious kooks, excuse me, beginners, and feel the same frustration that i do. they will proclaim that the ocean is a free place and it is their right to post live 3D videos or whatever the new thing is.

it is obvious that this site has ruffled some feathers and stirred some things up. i hope people take my comments constructively, but i doubt it.

Mark I like your Go pro vimmeo.

If there was anything that would provoke the ire of the vibey localists it would be putting up a webcam at one of 'most sensitive' spots on OB. Which I did last fall. And boy did I get some hate mail...from all 3 of them. 'Baggers bag.

This whole debate is comical from several perspectives. First there are no secret spots here, 'sensitive' (read occasionally busy with a range of skill levels and at least one hater in the line-up) yes, but nothing is secret. Every inch of coast from SC to Point Reyes has be surfed in some fashion, photographed, commented on and otherwise documented numerous times since Gore invented the innertubes.

Second, this isn't North Shore, a Baja point, Amazons or Bali. Those who want to fight over the 2.65 points on our coast will ultimately be sucked up and over Darwin's falls - the one on the beach. Meanwhile we can only hope they deal with their esteem issues or their early childhood, hyper-critical father angst before we bump elbows in the 'lineup'.

John is being sucked down by a few bullies who take this leisure activity (not sport) WAAAAAAY to seriously. Your mom is dying of cancer. That's serious. Your wife is in labor. That's serious. You got dead oil-soaked birds washing up on your beach. That's serious. You missed a pit op because some kook failed to zig. That's not serious. Perspective.

I go away for a week and come back and cortisol is oozing from my SR link. There is a simple fix here. It's the admin's BAN button. The most well-behaved and polite group of forum users on the net? TDPRI.com. Why? Their posting rules: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/announcement.php?f=14&a=1

SR is one of my favorite sites because of the intelligence, humor and shared appreciation for Nature and Her particular brand of energy exchange. I frequently ROTFLMAO. I've been awed. I've grumbled. I've even cried a few times during the Paraplegic v. Nature type post. I'm bummed John is being dinged by the vibey haters and respect pigs. We are all locals in our brief spurt here. Sad some can't see this.

post deleted... rethought about it and overit2 does have valid points.... sorry

Lots of long posts here... my suggestions (sorry if this is a re-hash of others ideas):

1) It seems like most of the conflict here is 'real-time' vs. post-session reporting. With that in mind, if it is a sensitive spot (I.E. not on the list), write post session reports and consider using code. The more sensitive the spot, the later you wait to post.

Just trying to be pragmatic and not an idealist one way or the other. Nothing is stopping you from discretely 'real-time' reporting on sensitive spots to your surfing buddies via cellphone or whatever.

2) I'm fine with the site moderator removing/screening reports, rants, and especially comments that are just asking for trouble.

3) Try not to take the bait on negative comments. Vote them down instead.

why doesn't everyone choose to post/rant however they please - it is much easier then creating a set of rules, then having to scrutinize every post - let the green thumb/red thumb do their jobs

I'm confused. What's the point of posting about a great sesh at a secret spot?

kudos to h finn for nailing it. when people get territorial about spots and get all agro they have lost the spirit of the sport. when things get crowded I get out.... who needs the energy. and that is why OB is a great spot. the elements. often very good waves. limited crowding. plenty of beach. I cannot stand Santa Cruz. All the point breaks make for a lot a aggression in the line ups. The sign into SC should say "WELCOME TO SANTA CRUZ. GET OFF MY FUCKING WAVE" which is the energy you get down there. I hope SF does not follow down that path. I have enjoyed Stoke Reports reporting and sense that most of it is positive. Apologies for posting a photo of a spot down the coast earlier this week. Now that everyone notices it, it is no longer secret. So, all those who are looking for a spot they can call their own and guard like german shepherds please get on it. I think the place is call Shark Fin Cove. Real inviting. See you down there!

What's stokereport.com for? Reporting on your stoke or reporting on the place & conditions? For me, they're kind of connected. I'm as interested in reading that someone scored on a day when the buoys said 'sleep in'.

Draw your own Venn diagram, but it seems like these are a few of the major axes in the debate:
public vs private reports
anonymous vs owned reports
real-time vs delayed reports
specific vs general locations

My preference for the site: Don't change it. Let users decide how much they want to share.

I want to log every session (and I don't mean ride a log (this time)). I want to connect that log with a place; I want the buoy data connected too. I want to share it with whoever wants to read it. I want to be a better surfer. I want to learn about the history and stories of places, people, and events in our sport. I want to find my own path and connect with other people. I want to have fun.

Happy Mother's Day, by the way. Call your mom.

Oh, and one more thing for all y'alls: http://stokereport.com/rant/tonights-set-19

I'm comfortable with whatever outcome rises to the surface, with respect to this particular discussion. StokeReport is great due to the spirit of the contributors, and however the rules evolve, I'm sure that (perhaps after some adjustment, at most) the goodness will shine on.

One thing I ask, though, is that we do NOT "vote down" any posts during this weekend. Or, more importantly, that no posts "automatically disappear", if that is the current technical default of the website. More than ever, I think that it's absolutely critical that we are exposed to the somewhat oppositional opinions expressed by the likes of @nalu, @apocalypsenow, and @overit2. I applaud, seriously, their taking the time to make their statements here. If these posts disappear over the course of this discussion, then we'll just be preaching to the choir and the whole thing will be a baseless sugar-coat. We should all appreciate the thoughtful, complete, articulate posts that have come from those who have bones to pick with SR. I have given each of the above posters a "green thumb up" because they are the ones that are actually helping to define the edge of a problem that we're all trying to cope with.

Let's retain our stoke, not in the midst of a happy vacuum of our own choosing, but in the midst of the reality of the situation.

Wise thought, David:

"Let's retain our stoke, not in the midst of a happy vacuum of our own choosing, but in the midst of the reality of the situation."

A great assessment of the challenge here. Thanks.

the good news: SR has hit a critical mass. there's enough people around these parts so that there is a real world effect. community is nice.

the reality: real time and/or detailed surf reports will cause a backlash. for better or worse, right or wrong, just the way it is. no amount of discussion will change this.

the moderator(s) need to decide what they want this community to be and how much effort they want to put into enforcing/creating it. keeping all the location specific report categories means they will have to be fairly vigilant in policing comments. creating a generic report for people to post as much or as little as they desire probably means less policing and still allows the community some choice.

to those that claim there are no 'secret spots'. while technically true, there definitely are. when i pull up to OB and see literally 20 people on every peak in both directions, then drive for less than an hour and find a little corner that's working better with few to no people out, that's secret enough for me. this is one of the most wave-rich coastlines in the world. i think that most here have no clue about how many spots there are in marin/sf/sm/sc counties.

part of the secret is learning how tides, wind, swell size and direction affect spots. how seasons affect sand, and how sand and reef interact. every spot has its day, and non-spots can become spots given the right confluence of conditions. there will always be those who have learned this through years of observation and dedication and don't want it handed on a silver platter to anyone with a data connection. it's about learning and discovering the secrets, not being told.

@minyan: those spots really aren't getting reported upon. "Spot X" or "Spot Y" isn't exactly specific. I believe that people can share their stoke in that manner and not adversely affect conditions out in the water.

One thing I keep hearing on this post and several others is something to the degree of, "This isn't Southern California" or "This isn't Santa Cruz" when it pertains to the crowds here in San Francisco. Have you ever thought that one of the reasons is because SF doesn't have the extensive history with cameras and reporting that they have down South?

Some of the rationale seems to be, "Well, the crowds aren't so bad here now, so OB can handle the reporting." Have you ever thought that if you keep reporting and taking any of the guesswork/homework out of the equation that it WILL eventually become crowded like down South?

I know it isn’t the ONLY factor, but it IS a factor. One of the reasons why OB (as well as SF’s few pointbreak options) has remained relatively uncrowded in relation to down South is because it can be extremely fickle and hard to find that one window when all the elements come together and it gets really good. When you tell a large audience exactly when and where it’s good, as it’s happening, you can expect more crowds than there otherwise would have been.

If you think OB can never become crowded like down South, I think that’s a very myopic view. We live in huge metropolis and OB, when it’s working, is almost always the best beachbreak within 50 miles of either direction. I have lived here for almost 20 years, and I HAVE seen it get significantly more crowded over that time. Everyone has the same tools when it comes to buoys and charts; if a surfer really wants to score they can do the homework on their own without having someone spoonfeed it to them and tell them exactly when and where to surf. That’s how we used to do it in the “olden days”. Haha.

If it’s all about sharing the stoke, then I still think that can be done AFTER your sessions, or in more general terms. Even sites like Surfline post general reports, and only once or twice a day. If you want to share your specific information with a really good friend, there are these things called telephones that are a lot more personal than posting on the internet for the entire world to see. ;-)

I urge people to read even the “negative” comments on this post and take in the information. It seems like Overit2 is sort of the whipping boy on this site, but I actually think his post had a lot of valid points. He doesn’t sugarcoat things, but I don’t think he’s being disrespectful either. In the end, I guess it’s up to John to decide how it will work, and I’m sure he’ll read all of this and use the information wisely.

If I understand correctly, folks who are anti-SR are against a site that provides a ready source of info about local surf. I'm guessing that no changes to SR, short of shutting it down or total overhaul will please these folks.

And, if SR shuts down, eventually another similar site will just take its place. SR has staked its claim and put in the work, and deserves to continue as long as it provides a daily dose of posts which users find worthwhile. Personally, I'm thankful for the amusing/interesting/inspiring bits as well as local wind/tide/swell data.

So, if changes are made, I don't think they should be made to appease a small minority which likely won't be satisfied anyways. BUT, it does seem that another (larger?) group of users would like to see a few changes:

1. Take grey whale, rockaway, and ###### off the list above

2. No real time reporting. If you really want to share the stoke, do so after you surf.

3. Don't report on specific spots e.g. "@ ulloa" or "in front of ######."

All work and no [surf] make homer something something:

Applause!

Nice work, John :)

Kenny, right on! :)

Overit... IMHO, constructive. Direct... but constructive.

Kaiser Sosa :) Community first, tools last... because you can does not mean you should
"Vague is vogue" (c) BStah
This was always appealing about E's site

BTW, this will not eliminate the fray. BVB will not be denied! Rants are the spice of life

Really nice work collectively, SR! Movin' on! Hope to surf with y'all when conditions improve!

Jesse, I think #1 is covered

Completely agree with #2 and #3.

Part of larger group... out!

aww, group hug. nice work. SR lives another day.

one request John - can you add a surf report for 'somewhere'. or something along those lines so that those that don't want to claim a specific spot don't have to?

I think having a Eastside SC general and a Westside SC General would be nice rather than just steamer lane. That is usually the one piece of info that would be nice to sort of know where was working or not. Other than that, good list.

I think the lack of McCovey Cove is appalling.

SFMC please :)

tehdely: as long as the Bayside is gonna be done, might as well add Toxic Beach.

What are you guy's doing now? This is way to much to read, Rule # 578 don't make a book out of one post.

@hodad: you'll find the decisions summarized here: http://stokereport.com/rant/new-community-guidelines