I wouldn't mind the fire pits if people would just pick up after themselves. But this is getting ridiculous...
Not a big fan of urban beach fires. The collateral damage isn't worth it. Fires left to smolder are just as bad as the littering. Before they were banned at LM, stinky unattended fires would typically smoke out the parking lot or, in offshore conditions, gross-out the lineup. Too many people become disrespectful and just plain stupid around beach fires. People figure that since there aren't any trees or forest ground cover to burn that it's not a problem to walk away from a lit fire. And yeah, a one hour reduction in the curfew does seem like a ridiculous and toothless change. SM and SC counties have miles of remote beaches better suited for responsible people to have a fire.
I respectfully disagree. I'd rather allocate funds to pay a couple of people to do a late shift and check in with people to remind them to pick up after themselves than pay people to enforce a 9 pm curfew. Or worse to enforce an outright ban.
Way too much regulation imho.
I get that there's a problem with littering but the answer can't just be to turn over the beach to the snowy plover and fine people for wanting to use the beach.
What if it was permit based? If you left a mess, your name and C-card would be on record. yes this means you would have to pay $$ to get access but when something is free, people seem to assume it has no value.
No additional rules and regulations, no effin permits, no early closing times. Let there be beach fires. We live in California on the beach, deal with it. Its the tiniest little stretch where we're still allowed to have fires, and like it or not its part of our heritage, disrespectful assholes and all. There are countless pristine beaches to the north and south where fires either aren't allowed or just never happen, so if a little smoke bothers you, have at it. And the surfing is better there anyway.
I'm tired of picking up Budweiser bottles and cheetos wrappers every time I surf. I'm down with having fires but unfortunately, people are making huge messes and their needs to be consequences. I don't think the curfew is the answer, I think it's getting the word out (by example) that bad actors will be caught and will be fined.
@goingleft, yes because the getting caught and fined approach, for example, has worked so well for driving and texting.
Used condoms in the parking lots....tired of having my dog pick those up.
just add it to the list of things we cant do anymore dam kids
Ted- I used to live right on the beach in Encinitas (D Street). There were/are fire rings there. People used them all the time and only rarely was there a mess. Why? Because they enforced the rules would be my guess.
Personally I think we need to stop relying on the park service or police or whoever, and try reminding people that its their own beach, and polluting it only hurts themselves. Put up a few signs, make stickers, murals, etc. Of course some people will still be assholes, but they'll be assholes under the authoritarian method anyway. And with the Park Service/Police method, everyone loses under the new restrictions, and then the next thing you know we have to pay to use the beach. Its like having to pay the mafia to prevent them from smashing your store windows. I know that sounds over the top and paranoid but its happened time and again, and in my opinion is exactly why they try to prevent people from organizing among themselves.
Like most people around here I spend a lot of time on isolated beaches, and I pick up every single scrap of litter I see. And I find that its good for the soul. I printed up these stickers to try to spread the joy of it:
My view is that if you want wild places, you have to take a bit of bad with the good. And that tiny little stretch of beach that we're talking about is way better when its wild, and people can bark at the moon, even if I have to pick up a few scraps of litter or even a whole lot of it every now and again. And if all that is just too much for you, walk a few hundred yards to the south, or drive a couple of miles to the next big parking lot, and you won't have to gaze upon a single smoldering ash.
And parenthetically, I'm sure some firefighter or paramedic or whoever has said "I'm sick and tired of rescuing people at Ocean Beach, lets make some laws that prevent people from going in the water!" The same logic has been used successfully elsewhere. Aren't you glad they weren't successful here?
And sorry, in that above comment I wasn't trying to lump firefighters and paramedics in with authoritarians. Just making the point that someone being fed up isn't necessarily justification for new rules and restrictions.
if sf was somehow peacefully decimated then we would only have one tenth the crowd and less litterers.
Bummer if you ask me. I have a fire out there maybe twice a year. I hate it when the cops come by and get all uptight. Sort of silly really. Just pack out your trash.
This is why we can't have nice things.
If SF were decimated we'd have 9/10ths of the crowd. Do the math Fullybrah.
"The word decimation is derived from Latin meaning "removal of a tenth""
It's sad when the real problem is a lack of personnel resources. Rules and regulations don't get you much if they are not consistently and evenly enforced. Right now it appears out of control because the Feds ain't patrolling the beach at night. Frankly I'm surprised it isn't worse. Bottles and beaches can be a really bad mix. SF cops barely patrol, so what do you expect squirrel cops to be doing? Unless some $$ is found for enforcement, fires appear on the way out. Too bad.
kook i meant one tenth less crowd. nice image btw. the glaring irony that you missed is that the mate in decimate doesn't mean removal it means kill. you cannot peacefully kill people.
Surfers arguing over math is funny imho
I don't see what difference a 9pm vs 10pm curfew is gonna make. The scumbags who litter & cause trouble at 10pm will still do it at 9pm. If you haven't noticed, these types litter in broad daylight; time of day is irrelevant. All these new regs don't bode well for all beach users. Litter and dumb behavior in SF is a problem, but it's small in comparison to other parts of the state and world. Doesn't justify further restrictions on public access and traditions at one of the few easily accessible beaches in the area.
Wierd because I was out this week and there were pieces of half-burned, half-buried wood palette with a bunch of nails sticking out nowhere near a fire ring. Don't remember seeing that before. Moved some of the solo pieces to the biggest pile to make it less likely that somebody would step on a nail. That kind of shit could/would restrict my access/mobility more than a burn ban.
How about putting a TRASH CAN near each fire pit?! I know, this is sort of a revolutionary idea, reducing litter by having a garbage can. But it just might work.
Drei, what are you? Some sort of genius? Impressive idea.
Agreed, that's an awesome idea.
Drei has had the most useful idea yet.
Drei, I like the idea, but the beach is trashed even where there are trashcans. People who won't carry trash 25 feet to a trash can probably aren't going to carry it 5 feet to a trash can. If I can carry a surfboard and a pile of someone else's trash to a trash can every time I come in, I'm pretty sure whoever left it there didn't do so because of trashcan access issues (I never have trouble finding one). Maybe we need to start organizing some stokereport beach cleanups with some regular frequency.
Any place that has ghetto riff-raff will have litter. The problem lies with the type of people who have taken over SF as a whole, Ocean Beach included.
The big impediment to putting in trash cans is that the park service doesn't want to pay to maintain and empty them. Also, it's inevitable that the same assholes who litter & cause trouble would use the cans as an alt fire pit or steal them for scrap metal. I don't believe it's really a question of money or resources, just how those 2 things are prioritized. Park Svc was able to ride the "Homeland Security" gravy train too. Along with their equipment upgrades over the past few years, I've noticed park cops becoming more aggressive in petty enforcement of the "easy stuff", minor vehicle code violations for example. Never saw that in years past. These folks are supposed to work for "us". Instead of harassing people who show up early in the lots for dawn patrol, or beating and arresting people for the heinous crime of having an off leash dog, they need to concentrate on the actual protection of our natural resources. This means putting in some night shifts and cracking down on those who are trashing the beach. Maybe even springing for some trash cans too.