survey: Should Ft. Point surf reports be inlcluded in StokeReport?

Voted. So voted.

i'm glad it's anonymous - i wouldn't want anyone to know that i voted yes ; )

vote this up folks, so that it will stick around for a while on the top rants list ...

To be fair, shouldn't this be posted somewhere besides Stokreport? How are the opinions of those who re not apart of this online community represented? Or is that besides the point?

can't we decide on our own?

(if you don't want to post about epic/empty ft. point before your session then dont - if you do, then do it)

Seems that the only people who have a huge problem with it are here anyway (possibly taking advantage of existing reports - then complaining about anyone entering the water during that immediate session.

Maybe posting a report will bring stokereport hypocrite/haters into the lineup - then invite them to complain about it later...

as i keep typing more combinations of why/why not to post come up - i'm getting a bit dizzy. Seems like an individual judgement call in the end

@water sledding: you're making a strawman. KoK has not made any claims as to what his poll represents.

Yah-Guy wears his heart on his sleeve (and referrers to himself in the 3rd person) and voted no. I feel better now. Excellent initiative KoK. I'm no local, but FP reaches its saturation point quickly.

my $0.02: as reporting Ft. Point conditions on site seems to be an issue for some, it makes sense to know how a sample of stokers feel, so this poll seems like a good idea. And, it makes sense that anyone can answer but that stokers be the majority of respondents since the poll is to gauge our feelings vis-a-vi a Ft. Point report.

Good idea to make a poll. I voted no.

I love the sense of community and positive vibe of this site. And I love to read session reports, especially from OB. But I think we can keep sharing just as much of the stoke, without revealing details on sensitive spots to the whole internet... IMHO a good topic for future discussion could be "what is responsible stoke reporting?".

I think the "what is responsible stoke reporting" Topic has been done to death.

voted no. seems like only Lindo, OB, and the jetty are in the public domain around here; think it would be good to follow the surfline model, not because its surfline but because its a pretty fair representation of breaks in the public domain (on other websites, in books, maps, etc): http://www.surfline.com/surf-report/central-california_2923/map/ ...

Not really. "Reports = evil, reports = good" has been done to death. An even keeled discussion on that's responsible hasn't really been taken on. (Mostly because it turns into "No YOU suck, no YOU suck")

For example, is it widely agreed that OB/LM are fair game for any kind of reports? Should some spots be reported on only after sesh, or only if it's empty/already crowded?

I remember there was a good run of Lee reporting only when Ft Point was unsurfable, which I found more amusing than I really should have I think. Heh.

@cyclona23 Just curious, is your def of what's public domain as defined by surfline going by which spots have HD cams?

Shhhhhhhhhhhh they are watching.......and paddling out as I type.
The word is out, I heard everyone will be there from now on. Me my friends and more friends and even my mother. HAHA! J/k
I wont vote because I don't go to that place. Not posting wont stop the peeps from going though.

no, im not going by HD cams. just going by spots that get mentions; most of the surfline spots approxamate what's out there on other sites as well -- swellinfo, magic seaweed, pacwaverider, etc; although pac waverider does include ###### and rockaway, but they are never right anyway :) one suggestion might be to not mention the specific spot, just the general area like on swellinfo.com (half moon bay, ocean beach, pescadero, etc)

Yeah, I was just wondering since FT Point is always listed at the top of the SF/SM county surf spots list on surfline. I guess what I meant was were you referring to ones that get onsite conditions reports vs buoy/condition approximations. Surfline does include a lot of data about Ft Point, the distinguishing factor being that it doesn't get the "hay guys, it's going off!" report like LM or SOB/NOB do.

Yeah, real people reports not buoy data. Cant really compare a bunch of data that I can get from NOAA to a pair of eyes in the parking lot. SL only does reports for OB, SOB, Lindo, Mavs. Can we all agree on a list of spots and stick to it and never ever discuss this again?

Or we could agree to give all of our stokereports >as< buoys.

"Ding ding. 4-6ft at 16 seconds. WNW. Winds E at 2 knots. Seagull just crapped on my head. Ding Ding."

I'm looking at you Ira Glass.

For my own reasons, I'd like to keep FP on SR. But I think it would definitely be great for stoke report to get rid of it. The topic is constantly controversial and pretty much the sole source of bad vibe on this site. I think i'm going to make it my personal mission to rent an apartment with a good view of the point and set up an HD cam of my own (and make the feed public). But yeah, for the good of SR, I think no more FP is probably a good idea. That said, I'll probably keep posting about it occasionally if it's still in the list.

You could always use the Roof cam to check Ft. Point http://cams.exploratorium.edu:8010/

srsly that cam rulz!

@lee: I'll contribute $$ to your server costs.

IMO, it's absurd for some to be attempting to attach "secret spot" status to a break which is *that* public. Most Famous Bridge in the World, big city proximity, public parking lot, wikipedia entry, yada, yada, yada.

Well I think the idea in question here is not "is Ft Point 'secret' " since it clearly is not. My 84 year old grandmother in Michigan knows people surf under the golden gate bridge. I think the question is more "Should a surf spot that doesn't handle crowds well be included and actively reported on". It's semantically different, but I that difference is important to some folks.

I like reading reports about SFFP. Seems hard to be precious about a spot where webcams, highways, and boats could spill beans. Kinda seems like folks are hyper-vigilant about FP to protect a few breaks just to the west (which are even more crowd-sensitive). Wave reporting domino-theory?

A thought/feature: Add "Spot X" locations for folks who want to report on a session without giving up too many details:
SFSX
SMSX
MCSX

@KoK, great idea: poll the mob.
@lee, great idea about the apartment/cam. Get renters insurance.
@tracey, I agree: snark is done to death, still in dire need of productive discussion to find middle ground.

I've been surfing for 25 years and I'm not one of the guys you should be concerned when posting real time reports of ######. However, I have a lot of respect for native surfers and surfers that have been surfing SF longer than I have. I think you have built a nice little online community and reporting on LM, OB, and HMB is not a problem. Even though FP is not a secret spot, you should respect those who have surfed there much longer than you have by not posting real time reports online. Surfing is a soulful experience and even if that experience isn't posted about online, it still happened. I have literally kept some of the best surfing experiences of my life to myself by not talking about them to anyone(and definately not posting online about them) since it was a personal experience and better not to hype it. Again, I'm not one of those guys you should be concerned about but as a long time surfer I am sincerely really surprised that people on this site post real time reports on a localized spot like FP. Remember, surfing was happening before the internet and if it wasn't posted about, it still happened. Many great waves to you and Aloha!

Nobody is saying its a "secret spot". Its a localized spot.

Other "crowd sensitive" spots people post about but no one complains about people posting about:

- Linda Mar - yeah it's a reasonably big bay, but damn it gets crowded sometimes!
- HMB jetty - smallish spot can get packed.
- SCSL
- SCPP

As an aside I don't think anyone's been posting real time reports on FP recently, only after session, which generally means after it's gone to crap anyway.

This discussion takes place as if the dilemma surrounding atm surf conditions reporting -at a particular spot- is some new development in the sport with no established guidelines. It's a quirky debate to begin with: whether one spot's current conditions may be reported, while assuming that it's already acceptable to report on another. I feel this comprehensive confusion is the result of incorrect assumptions from the start (that on-spot reporting is ok for some spots); and that atm/on-spot reporting is contrary to already established principle's of surfing conduct and etiquette.
In my understanding:
Current surf conditions at a particular spot aren't to be broadcast to any audience aside from friends or family, in which case it is done so directly between only a couple of people who all benefit from this arrangement.
The concept that supports this rule is not only familiar to all, but one of the fundamental tenets of the sport. This concept rewards hard work and experience observing weather conditions; it rewards dedication and effort; it rewards those who have sacrificed certain things in life for proximity to the ocean; and the most glorious and egalitarian reward of all- this idea absolutely insures that those who get skunked the most also get the best surf for their troubles(no matter how far from the sea you live).

This surfing concept which leads to the above is simply "You shoulda been here yesterday". On-location, current condition reporting broadcast to the general public is contrary to the interests of every surfer on the planet because it homogenizes the experience and guarantees you will never really score because good waves are only half of the equation. If you think you benefit because you drive from Hayward, you are fooling yourself. How many of us have had unsatisfying surfs in really good conditions because of crowds and the aggressive, greedy attitudes that result? All of us have those sessions, in fact, that variety of particularly sad sessions are becoming the norm for "RIght now- OB is holding somE TALENT!" surf days.
The more you go the more you score irregardless of surf reports read, no matter how far from the ocean you live. The current state of surf reporting lessens the chance that every single one of us enjoy memorable sessions by always stacking the crowd side of the equation.
If you can't surf a lot because you live far away and think that a current report will increase your chances of a memorable session, you've already forgot that your perpetual "rustyness" will still leave you fighting for inside corners and sloppy seconds with all your inland brothers and sisters. It is really fucking sad when after a sessions of good wave conditions, you lie in bed that night not flashing back to curling lips but are instead brimming with self-loathing for not telling off the punk who backpaddled you over and over.
So my answer to the original question is simple: report about any spot you want, tell us all about that insane session you had YESTERDAY!

At the same time, there have been a number of pro-localism people posting on here to blast surfers who go out in crap conditions. There are quite a few stokereporters who live in the east bay and dawn patrol every day, resulting in the type of surfing being frowned upon by folks who bought a house on great highway back in 1972 and have the luxury of going back to sleep if their particular sand bar isn't breaking just right. No matter how many buoys a person checks, or days spent watching a pressure system move ashore, commuting from the east bay for a dawn patrol = going out on less than perfect waves. Hell, being open minded over optimistic can also = surfing less than perfect waves. Less than perfect waves can be fun and are certainly common for those of use without the luxury to stand on the beach all day and wait for that golden window of greatness.

Surf is unpredictable no matter how confident we are in our skills to read it. All signs may point to beaut only to pan out as much much less than beaut.

Chadburn, I'm not speaking to you here since the criticism of surfing bad waves hasn't come from you, but to critics in general: it can't be both ways, it can't be "kook, you suck for surfing everything" and "if you don't live near the waves, you don't deserve the waves".

The bay area is large and we take on the gamble that the surf might not be so hot once we get to where we are going. Even entrenched longtime OB surfers and residents will have to face that risk should they decide to surf anywhere else. I would never criticize someone who surfed junk waves after driving all the way down to SC or Monterrey on what should have been a good day only to have the wind come up.

Even with reports we have to assume that by the time we leave work or rush out the door, conditions will have changed. Most of the active posters on this site do the legwork, weigh the restrictions of time and distance, then hope for the best. Sure, sometimes it means a less than perfect score. Having a positive attitude (and the sense to know the difference between crappy waves and dangerous ones) is something to be praised even just a little, rather than wielded as an insult.

Not to long ago I was out and got dropped in on by a guy who almost scalped me with his tail fin as he flailed over the falls and pearled.. I was angry (at the lost wave) and scared by how close I came to a truckload of stitches. It was one of the few times I have ever growled at someone in the lineup.. "Don't do that! It is dangerous for you and for me!" Surfing is one of the few sports I can think of that requires some properly applied peer pressure to stay both safe and fun for as many people as possible.

My dilemma on the whole "posting about FP" (or any other impacted spot) thing is that the spot was crowded 25 years ago when I used to go watch people surf there and I am not at all convinced that a report on this site from FP now makes any difference in the crowd level. It looks just like it did in 20 years ago.. In other words (since the thread is about a survey) I do not see a "causal" relationship between a session report on stokereport about FP and a measurable increase in crowds. And having watched a few allegedly secret/locals/mysto spots west of somewhere kinda orange and tall 20 years ago with much the same problem I am not sure I see a "stokereport" = "crowds" connection there either..

I do respect the conventions of the sport and you'll note I rarely if ever report on spots. But I don't blame any poster or website for the number or skill level of any surfer at any spot I have ever surfed... Cause whether you knew the conditions from meditation, a website, NOAA, marine band radio, divining rods, reading entrails, rolling bones, sneaking a peak at Doc R's 30 years of detailed weather diaries, or a phone call from your friend does not matter all that much to me.... Your still there in the lineup with me.. And therefore we still have to figure out how to surf and stay stoked with each other however we arrived...

I really do get that some folks are exercised about this and I respect that, and them (in so far as they are respectful) BUT I remain unconvinced that the "problem" and the "solution" have any relationship to one another in this case.. So I am not yet ready to join in the chorus of no...

peaceout

wow, three great opinions! Massive props to you all. Yeah kind of funny how those westy spots get super crowded sometimes despite no tweets / stoke reports. And despite it all, I continue to score them and FP and loads of other places TO MYSELF, when they are going off, pretty damn regularly. STOKED!!!

Here is an idea. If there truly isn't anything wrong with what you are posting, upload a picture of yourself as your profile. That way you aren't hiding from anyone/anything. There are other users on here with photos of themselves. I registered and a photo of an old naked guy went up for me automatically which is pretty funny. So there you go, upload a photo of yourself as your profile and post away. If you feel uneasy about doing so, maybe it's possible that you are making posts that local surf community isn't happy about. I've actually found that you get better waves if the community you surf with respects you. Here's a hint, by showing respect, putting your time in, and having enough ability you can work your way into a lineup. Alright, that was my last post on this website. Good luck to all!

@falcon- my face is on my icon and you can goog the heck out of my life. Believe it or not there's another person out there with my name. We're in cahoots though, so good luck telling us apart. Also- you should practice what you preach.

@Rev.MCC- Good to mention Doc Renneker's weather obsessions too... we should all obsess so much. good points/observations about the causation (or lack-of) between reports and crowds. @lee has said it often: where are all the people?

@tracey, @Chadburn- how 'bout it! predicting surf conditions is hard. Sometime's it's hour-by-hour. Every clue you can scrape together helps. Seems like a report about someone's DP session that hits this site by 10 will be stale. fwiw, most of my surf-sessions are solo. I use sr to log sessions but occasionally meet folks at the beach. I like the 'more you go, more you score' motto. Kinda like Kelly Slater's 'surf anything' approach. The more you weave yourself into a place, the more you know and value it. Maybe the same applies to a web site/community?

Hehe, "Doing something wrong" and "Doing something the local surf community isn't happy about" are not the same things. There are some things that are right to do but that will piss off some people. Some people may be ignorant or just stupid. For example, some people thought slavery was a good idea. Ending it, although the good and right thing to do, pissed them off. In this case, I realize FP posts piss off a segment of the surf community. However, I think they also serve the greater good by helping to end "localism".

Someone who tries to never do anything that pisses anyone off is a coward with no principles.

I've found I get better waves if I get up early in the morning :)

I personally think localism is one of the saddest things about this sport.

I think there is a big difference between telling someone off for dropping in or almost hitting you, but being angry at someone who shows up and you don't know him is really just sad.

I have surfed localized spots and others that are not, I always seem to have the best times at the spots where the vibe is cool and just letting everyone get waves. Localism is something that should really die from the sport, being replaced by respect and teaching. Localism on the Internet is even more sad than localism in the line up.

@lkilpatrick: agree with you 100% about localism. It's a damn shame that

1) some people choose to live their lives in that manner and
2) they inflict their bad vibe upon others

Why do we surf in the first place? To have FUN! right?

On another note: I haven't lived a perfect life. I've been a bully and a dick before, just like the locals. Once I grew out of it, I regret it. It's not the right way to live, not if one wants to be happy.

Kooktastic: We've all had our moments.