Subjective vs. Objective: How in the world can we rate the surf?

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Rant - Subjective vs. Objective: How in the world can we rate the surf?

Hell if I know! It's damn subjective. Particularly if you get a great ride, or if you're just really loving life that day (and more power to you)! And as King of Kooks noted, our beloved beach break changes by the minute.

But objectively, we can break it down...

Good things:

Groundswell. Defined lines.
Long interval.
Consistent sets.
Good bars.
Steep 'n fast
No wind or offshore.
Clean, peeling waves.
Barrels.

Bad things:

No swell.
Sloppy, close interval windswell.
Inconsistant.
Crap bars
Sectiony/closeouts... roping dumpers. Or fat poopers.
Onshore winds.

Can we agree on that?

So... here's my attempt (notice the less awesome it gets, the more variables and causes for subjectivity):

Great surfing: all the good things.
Good surfing: well defined, peeling waves for sure. Groundswell or peaky windswell. Wind might be iffy, but not affecting the waves. Some sectiony waves, but more peelers.
Fair surfing: More sectiony waves that peelers, wind might be getting more on it, inconsistant.
Poor: all the bad things, or just hella onshore!

Then there's the Summer Excuse. It's real, for sure- a "fair" day in Summer sure can seem pretty damn "good". Hey, I hear ya. Maybe we need a special Summer rating- Summertimegood?

I dunno. I think in general some people posting these reports are super-positive, stoked, and- maybe sometimes- fairly new to surfing, and less critical? I so respect (and envy) you all that go for it, get great rides, and come out jazzed, but is it possible to count the objective elements when you choose your rating? The sometimes detailed descriptions that follow rock- the truly subjective part- and often are the truly valuable part of the report, IMO.

PS- I know the vid isn't OB, but it sure is "Great Surfing"

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stokereport
2 years ago

Thanks Jonathan. I agree with your overall thoughts. I'll try to write something up that we can all use as a rough guide, based on your rant any any comments on it.

King of Kooks
2 years ago

As the King of Kooks, and a guy with 31 years in the water, I appreciate the effort to describe and rate the surf.

However I think too much focus on this, and blogs, and cell phones, and twitter, buoys, and all the other info we get these days takes away from the fact that the surf is an ephemeral and ever-changing environment.

We can try to describe it until the cows come home but at the end of the day, if you want a sure thing go play golf.

tracey
2 years ago

I usually check stokereport to make sure it's not completely horrible/dangerous (victory at sea? no thanks) and to get stoked up to head out. I'll still jump on a poor if it sounds like people are having fun out there.

I def agree with king of kooks that surf conditions are ever changing. I dig having eyes on the water to give that extra little bit of info to my decision making in the morning and I certainly appreciate all the hard work from you guys at stokereport and everyone who contributes to the site.

On a related note, I have yet to submit a report. I'm at Pacifica often, but I enjoy the really small, low energy days. 2-3 ft and clean and I'm very happy. I don't mind the wait, but I feel silly writing up a report knowing most people would be out there bored catching the same waves ;)

King of Kooks
2 years ago

tracey: I think you should write up your sessions. After all it's called the stoke report. Good vibes and fun = stoke!

beachbum
2 years ago

absolutely. the great thing about stokereport is getting perspective from surfers with different perspectives on various breaks and conditions . don't be shy tracey. report your stoke! :)

tedm315
2 years ago

Personally, I ignore the poor/fair/good ratings. Just trying to describe the surf is subjective enough, and then summing it up with a quality rating is subjective upon subjective.

When describing the surf, I'm looking for these 3 things that are hopefully more objective than subjective:

Wave size:
Measure in feet or body part

Wind:
glassy/clean/choppy/blown out

Wave shape:
barrels/hollow/walled/crumbly/mushy

And people can make up their own mind whether the description matches their definition of quality.

But really I just want to know what the wind is doing. For some reason I find it less predictable, and when I have "won the lottery" it's on days that I thought were blown out, but turned out not to be.

Size can be inferred from a buoy reading, and wave shape varies by tide and break, so to a certain extent you can control the wave shape you seek.

As a jaded OB surfer, just tell me if it's blown out or not ;-)

p.s. Thanks to Stokereport for this site. I find it useful and fun.

tedm315
2 years ago

Also, FWIW, here's Surfline's take on the issue:

http://www.surfline.com/surfline/forecasts4/forecast_blog_entry.cfm?id=1...

Hmm... the Surfline post author is named Jonathan too...

beachbum
2 years ago

Do you think that Jonathan might be a mole for surflie.com? (and no that wasn't a typo ;)

Jonathan
2 years ago

^^ Hah, no I'm not, but I'll cop to fitting into the blog's title by-line:

"Random useless thoughts from a madman"

stokereport
2 years ago

@tedm315 Do you find the wind information on the main stokereport page useful i.e. the arrow showing current wind direction and speed?

King of Kooks
2 years ago

King of Kooks finds it useful (I know you werent asking me) but I also use this page.

http://www.ikitesurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=126&siteID=2640&Class...

I find the graph helpful so you can see if it's been building or holding steady, etc.

stokereport
2 years ago

Yea, the graph is nice. I graph the wind at the SF buoy, which typically follows the same trend. You can see it on the Ocean beach page. I could also graph the wind at the beach, but I hesitate to overwhelm people with data. Thoughts?

Jonathan
2 years ago

The more data the better, say I. But if you want to keep your page clean, perhaps you could just make a place for links?

This is my favorite wind chart, because it's visual. Especially useful in the summer 'cause it shows a bit of North County:

http://sfports.wr.usgs.gov/wind/streaklines.shtml

King of Kooks
2 years ago

@stokereport: I've been using your site for a long time and didnt realize there was a separate Ocean Beach page with the great graph you mention.

That's why I'm the King!

tedm315
2 years ago

I also use both sfports and ikitesurf for wind data, but a slight variation:

http://sfports.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/wind/windbin.cgi
http://www.ikitesurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=163&Isection=Forecast...

I haven't really tested the accuracy of the Stokereport wind data, sorry to say. Here are some of the issues I have found with wind data in general that lead me to sometimes buy a lottery ticket and hope for the best:

* There are so many days at that ~10mph threshold where it's a crapshoot whether it's surfable or not.
* Wind readings from a buoy are not necessarily indicative of what's happening at the beach.
* Sfports has been just plain wrong before, perhaps because it's a model and not actual measurements. I think the measurement points are at Golden Gate and Ft Funston and everything in between is an educated guess.
* Wind over time is important. It may be light wind at 7am in the morning, but it was howling all night, and the surf may still be jumbled.
* Some days there's a big difference in wind at ###### vs VFWs/######.

Anyway, despite all my rambling about reports etc, I'm actually not that picky. I'll spend maybe 5 minutes looking at data before I jump in the car :-)

Jonathan
2 years ago

"Sfports has been just plain wrong before, perhaps because it's a model and not actual measurements. I think the measurement points are at Golden Gate and Ft Funston and everything in between is an educated guess".

-They say they use "between 40 and 70 stations each hour", but at this time the links to their locations are dead.

----------------------------------------

I agree with every observation you've made in the above posts, tedm, and in principle (as one old fogey to another) with the King's attitude about internet surf resources. But I use 'em anyway. See, I share a car, and also am mindful of the carbon deal, so I try to make my time using it count. I often ride my bike, or even take the #5 (live at Stanyan/######) to get to the ocean, so I do all I can on the net to see if it's worth it. I'm aware of a certain lameness to doing so, but screw it. Been surfing since '74, and I'll use the tools out there.

The reason I asked for a discussion is because StokeReport is a community forum; it's possible to have one!

tedm315
2 years ago

> I do all I can on the net to see if it's worth it. I'm aware of a certain lameness to doing so, but screw it.

Hopefully you're not getting that vibe from me. I don't think it's lame at all. I think it's fun to learn how waves work and apply that to some hard-earned local knowledge. And I too will use whatever tools are out there.

King of Kooks
2 years ago

King of Kooks isnt anti tech either. Dont want my Kook subjects (if any) getting the wrong impression.

stokereport
2 years ago

@jonathan
> perhaps you could just make a place for links?
StokeReport has a links page. It's advertised in the footer of each stokereport page. I've added some of the great links above to the page. I'll remind everyone of the existence of this page in a rant. thanks guys for all the input and feedback. you all rock.

Jonathan
2 years ago

Fellas- no anti-nuthin' vibes from no one perceived. Lameness is a self-appraisal, based on the intuition than sitting on one's ass in front of a glowing monitor is fundamentally unhealthy!

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