Did I say soft? Yesterday I posted a report describing the conditions at OB as "soft"; today that word was redefined for me at Bolinas. On the plus, the sun was out, conditions were uber-clean, and there seemed to be plenty to go around.
Out of curiosity, would you be comfortable taping a sign to your car informing the people of Bolinas that you intend to post a report on a website that's mostly read by surfers who live in San Francisco, telling them how fun this surf spot is?
Do you think the people who live there would like that?
And does that reaction matter to you?
I know there's about to be a thumbs down party below my post, but I think this is a really good test for whether or not its cool to post about a specific spot on the internet, especially by name...
Out of curiosity, would you show up repeatedly at a web site whose purpose is to discuss surf conditions, read about those conditions, enjoy the articles but then rain on everyone's stoke by complaining that nobody should be doing it in the first place?
I hope not. Merry Christmas!
@ wrybread. if you find my report offensive, then go tell it to the surf shop owner at two-mile, who posts the conditions in great detail on his blog every morning. otherwise, stfu.
When will the Stoke Report bumper stickers arrive? Can't wait for the Stokers to start plastering them on their cars.
wrybread is not a hypocrite because he doesn't write reports. I live right by the beach and never need the internet to asses the surf. Thats why I dislike the reports on this site. 2 Mile, wise, ect bum me out too, but they do their thing at a scheduled time and they are getting payed. You guys are just into the whole online claiming thing. Thats why some of us take issue with this site. If you have to be a claimer, do it in front of your friends. And make a bumper sticker if you really want to take the claiming thing to the next level!!!
To the people bagging on me: its not me you disagree with. Its surf tradition itself.
Vague is vogue, and its really not too hard to do.
And Merry Xmas to you too!
@mrniceguy: It's o.k. to post reports if you are getting "payed". Not o.k. if you're doing it just for the benefit of others?
It's all starting to make sense now.
And it's "asess" ... asses are something entirely different ;)
I think if you find yourself in a position where you're getting paid to write surf reports, you will be set apart from the stoke reporters in a big way. You workin on that bumper sticker yet?
I'll seriously pay for that bumper sticker... What exactly should it say?
And I really don't mean any of this combatively. In my opinion sites like this are the future of online surf culture, so its worth braving the horror of the dreaded thumbs down to keep the discussion alive. And I think online surf culture should be an extension of traditional surf culture, hence I think its important to let people in the real world know exactly what you're doing online so they can let you know how they feel about things like naming a specific spot.
So if I've got this right... The thinking is "I live right by the beach and don't need a report" is supposed to trump "I don't live near the beach and like the report." Why exactly?
On background I have yet to ever choose to surf because of what I've read on a "posted" report... why? Because some of the stuff you folks think is fun I think will drown me... And other stuff just isn't my cup of tea.. And what you tell me is not nearly as compelling (sorry folks) as what Spitcast, Swellinfo, Surfpulse, Waverider, Magic Seaweed, LO--CAL surf, Surfline-quadcam, and so forth stream right to my little laptop.. I can read, see, and decide for myself... Which is what I think a lot of us do anyway...
So post your stoke I'm not convinced that these reports have led to crowding and your going to need to prove that before I'll I agree to clampdown on what seem like harmless "I had a good time" posts...
And I don't do bumperstickers... besides hats sell better
ok, but by your logic, a "I had a good time" post doesn't even need a location specified. So why the need to specify? How about we leave out the location thing entirely and we can post about how much fun we had and how we love surfing so much. If y'all want to contact each other personally to discuss location on a human to human level, then thats cool too! And you'll have a new friend or two! But these location-specific reports are an extension of the poor etiquette that is increasingly more noticeable in the water as well as on the web. And the two are connected, believe it or not. I think you'll find that your stoke wont diminish in the slightest if you refrain. And yea, if someone has the balls to destroy surfline's camera, I'd have no problem with that, but I don't think I do
Final comment before I give this thread up. I never post the following:
1) particular locations
2) directions on how to get to a particular spot
3) details about how a break works, or best times or tide heights
4) breaks that are not already well-known or don't have existing reports
5) I have never posted a report until the day is over; if you notice my timestamps are always at night
6) people who are this upset about Bolinas need to chill. really.
7) i have been surfing for the past twenty years, and give and get respect wherever I go. I could, if i felt like it, give updates and advice on where to go up and down the coast from vancouver island to el salvador. I don't.
8) everyone on stoke report has a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. It strikes me as un-American that a few people set themselves up as the self-appointed commissars of a barely accessible, cold, and sharky nor-cal beach break that has about a dozen existing reports already, and then try to regulate everyone else's dialogue about it.
9) everyone who paddles out at the bo understands they are trading off the potential for being ripped in half by a great white for waist-high peelers. on balance, its a bit of a stupid decision, really.
10) Perhaps those who advocate that stoke report patrons "label themselves" should apply that same logic to themselves first, perhaps by posting real pictures or coming up with their own bumper stickers that read "i try to subtly claim ownership of bolinas by anonymously intimidating others on an online forum".
11) i'm not serious about that last suggestion, btw - but for heaven sake, can we not just get along and have a nice time in the water? the truth is NOBODY owns the beach. we all have a right to the ocean, and we should practice being kind to one another and sharing.
@futuresparky: you're still missing my point. You have a "right" to say whatever you want. But my question is *should* you. To me its a no-brainer: if you can't do it proudly and openly in the real world, then in my opinion you shouldn't do it secretly online. And I *know* you wouldn't do it proudly and openly, it'd be completely absurd, your car would get vandalized and you might too. I don't mean that as a threat, I'm not the type of person who would do it, but I think we both know someone would. And I hate to say it, but I think according to surf tradition, they'd be right to.
Maybe you're so obstinate that you'd claim your free speech right to post about any surf spot on the internet, but I think we all know that's not true. I'm guessing even you know it wouldn't be cool to post about that spot under the bridge or around the corner from there for example.
And I'd more than gladly label myself in the real world. I haven't said anything to you that I wouldn't say in person. My real name is Alec Bennett, and I've been using my handle "wrybread" for about 15 years online and its easily researchable, and when I hit that spot you're talking about I mostly drive my 1978 Dodge Chinook funky old camper. Its easy to spot: solar panels on top, goofy animal prints on all the seats, if its dark out it'll be lit up in multi colored LEDs. Come say hi, and I don't mean that in a threatening way. Unless you're an asshole in person too, I have no problem with you.
Sparky: point of order.
No-one on a privately owned and operated website has a constitutionally protected right to free speech (excepting the owners themselves when speaking as such... all others -- visitors, guests, etc -- NO).
What is permissible and allowed here is completely and entirely up to the people who own and operate it.
Carry on.
Finally, someone expressed the 'fact' that dakota just did. I'm sure many of you remember that about a year or more ago the Stoke Report administrator had us vote on which sites were acceptable and should remain reportable, with pictures, to include Bolinas. He also stated, and I paraphrase; be discreet on locations, and "Don't be a DICK." After this we took a vote, and what is now acceptable has been the norm, up until the most recent volleys expressed here by a select few newbies. Unless that is they have changed their avatar names.
So maybe it's time again to have a vote as to what is and isn't acceptable to report on. As for Bolinas, again I say, I have no issue with calling it "Somewhere in Marin." However, having said that, you all know that all of my reports come from there, and with pics most of the time. So what sense would it be for me to keep "My" stoke by reporting on a place a select few have taken offense to?
My suggestion would be to have anyplace north of the Gate called, 'The North Coast,' or simply 'Unknown.' And making no reference as to what county it's in, or when including pictures, no landmarks included in the photos.
These are my thoughts, and I will still surf and do a post session report with pics at Bolinas until it changes. If you don't like it, then vote it down, your choice. But if you do, then you're failing to understand what this site is really all about. And of lately, a few of you have been whining about every post with pictures.
Hope you're all having a wonderful Holiday, and please let's see more positive reports without all the complaints. But more importantly, let's hope for more consistent surf in the days and weeks to come.
BTW, for you Bolinas posting haters, when The Bo' was mentioned in the voting, my memory tells me that it was stated here that Bolinas was such an insignificant wave, with infrequent surf conditions, that nobody cared about the reporting of it. Just saying.
This pic is of a North Coast surf location. Anybody know where it's at?
Bo's not insignificant, it's more that Bo is a very different wave from the rest of Marin including places that would be much more of an issue to name. Many beginners head to Bo and it's best not to confuse the mellow conditions of Bo with someplace very much not mellow.
Any information anywhere on Bolinas should really come with a disclaimer: "Don't go to Bo unless you are prepared to spend a nice day hanging out in town not surfing."
I don't want to sound down on Bolinas. I love Bolinas. And on a good day, man I love Bolinas. But reliable conditions are not it's strong suit so you've got to be ready to buy some local jam, snack on some local produce, and spend some time building sandcastles instead of surfing.
Let's occupy the Wise parking lot!
Those A-Holes have a detailed, over the phone surf report...and they name spots. Fuck!
Now the waves are going to be really crowded.
@Makai & Dakota: the admins of this site can dictate what's cool to post on this site, just as (@futuresparky) the U.S. constitution can dictate what's legal. But that doesn't mean either can dictate what's ok in terms of surf tradition.
Which is why I advocate a different test: if you wouldn't let people around you in the real world know you're going to post about a specific spot, don't do it secretly and anonymously on the internet.
@ wrybread, please define for us what "surf tradition" means to you. And not what this site is about either, just "surf tradition." Because as long as I've been surfing at the Bo', even back in the 60's when Buzz had the only shop north of SF, he would always give us the surf report there if we called him on the phone.
And as I posted to Ira, I too am through with the likes of you. You're way to much maintenance here. But if I should see your "1978 Dodge Chinook funky old camper" at the Bo', I'll stop and introduce myself.
BTW, I always let people around me know that I'll post my session on this site when I get back home, with pictures too. They actually seem to like it. Never heard a negative comment from anybody in person about it either. Not that it would stop me if I did.
And more importantly, there are many, many individuals I speak with at the Bo' of whom have never heard of this site.
@Makai: so I take it you'd be willing to put a sign on your car when you're paddling out for a session that you're going to post about?
In all seriousness, I'll print a sign for you if you'll use it. Bumper sticker, door magnet, windshield sign, whatever. I'll print them for whoever wants them, as long as they promise to use them when they're going to post about a session where they name the spot. We can talk about the exact ad copy. I nominate "I'm going to post about this spot on stokereport.com", but am definitely open to alternatives.
And people keep taking what I'm saying as a threat. Its not. I'm a friendly guy and the only reaction you'd get from me is maybe saying hi. But its a way of letting the wider surf culture know what you're doing, so they can give you their input. And if you're doing something that the wider surf culture (i.e., not just the people on this website or the few people you speak to in the water) wouldn't approve of, in my opinion you might think twice about doing it.
That's it. No big whoop.
And maybe you're right, maybe everyone will love you for it. It'll be an interesting experiment either way.
You can email me at wrybread@gmail.com and we can talk about specifics of the sign, and then I'll post a new thread offering them to other folks if they want them.
@wrybread: for the love of the baby jesus, do us a favor and let it go!
this might be a good time to close your account and find a website that you actually like.
and on your way out, pick up the t-shirt and hat that i made for you (design below) ;)
And I really don't mean any of this combatively
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I usually enjoy Wrybread's comments and find them generally more interesting than the reposted / repeat items Burro spams this site with. Seriously dude, bloglines and google reader have been around for how long?
PS. Wry... and mrniceguy, while I may agree with you much of the time, you've gotta admit "we" lost this battle a long time ago. Fight the good fight and all...
Well, you know what they say about the masses, Mr. Burro. It rhymes with one of your synonyms.
For a long time there, I thought you were a script or a bot...
Wrybread, I get what you're going for with the bumper sticker, but I wouldn't put any bumper sticker on my car. I'm an enormous Giants fan, but I don't have a sticker because Dodger fans are idiots and might do something to my car. Same with religious affiliations, etc. Bumper stickers suck.
This argument strikes me as getting completely out of hand. It is ridiculous and it strikes me as selfish and greedy. The day I posted this "report" anyone could have easily found much more detailed information on any number of surf web-sites; additionally, on this day there were already at least 4 dozen people in the water, a lot of them rank beginners....not exactly a "secret" location. I wish it wasn't so, but not surprisingly, the selfishness of human nature has once again tainted a perfectly nice dialogue with selfish interests; it seems this is only a microcosm of our greater and more insurmountable problems - any resource at all seems to be nothing but a source of contention between people. well, thanks for the stoke fellas.
@wrybread & @mrnice guy, thanks, honestly, for keeping the dialogue civil, especially when the world seems against you on this site and some folks ultimately resort to kneejerk reactions & personal attacks. Of course, I'm one of the worst offenders in your view, I'm sure, and so you know I don't agree with you either. I've made my reasons for posting known before. Exec sum: I love sharing the stoke or bah I've had & like to see others' reports from the same beach to see how it compares. I don't post to tell people where or when to surf. Don't know if that's anyone's intention. Also, you're probably aware that I never post specifics and since I almost never surf anywhere but the Beach, those are the only reports I drop, even when I surf elsewhere.
So, preliminaries out of the way, two points:
1. You speak of tradition, yet there are a lot of old timers (@makai as just one example) on this site that don't agree w/this particular "tradition". There are also a lot of old timers and locals in real life that disagree (from the recently departed Sean Collins to all the old dudes at Wise & 2 Mile to the crew at Sunset Shapers and Ocean Beach Surf). Philosophically, how does one define tradition? And does it even matter, to a certain extent? Traditions change and are created constantly. Is it a tradition when there's widespread disagreement? How would you know, in this instance, that you're the majority? What if you're not "reporting" on a public site but to your group of 10 buddies on email. Is that better? In that case, there aren't even any rules re: naming specific sites, times, etc. It's an interesting concept to me.
2. Re: the bumper sticker idea. I love this idea b/c it helps get to the crux of the issue. Unfortunately, I think it fails for the reason @friscohio points out and that, I think, @thebeard has pointed out previously: There are a lot of irrational folks out there who do stupid shit when people disagree with them. So, I get your point as a rhetorical one, it's just not going to happen in real life.
"TRADITION?"
@ sticker, please explain your comment, " (@makai as just one example) on this site that don't agree w/this particular "tradition." What is it that this so called 'tradition' is that has any relevance to this site that seems to be so controversial about? Is it the definition of the Stoke's original purpose, the reporting of a surf session, the posting of pictures, or WHAT? Because if this so called 'tradition' of which @wrybread, @mrniceguy, and now you keep speaking of has been the cause of yours and others recent shock and awe have caused, then there's actually only one other solution, and that is to shut Stoke Report down!
Will you be happy with that outcome, will you dance and revel in your conquest of superficiality that you have caused a major Bay Area Surf Stoke website to become obsolete? What is it that you people really want? Do you want a physical confrontation, because in all my experience's before the inception of the Internet and sites like this, I have been witness to many a childish display of blood in the water, on the beaches, and in the parking areas, to include the vandalism of vehicles too. And when I lived in Hawaii, it was way worse than this, but I earned my position in the line ups, and on the beaches by respecting the "Tradition." WHEN AND FOR WHAT REASON(S) WILL YOU BE SATISFIED?
Please be specific, because I do understand and respect Stoke Report, and feel that I have not crossed the line in any manner that has been set forth in the rules.
These accompanying pics are of some of the Bo' locals who had absolutely no issues with having had their pictures taken, and as a published photographer, one must attain their permission to do such in any public media if names only are mentioned. I thus asked for their names, and all I got were first and nick names.
What we have proceeded to do is draw much more undue attention to the Bo', of which you have been arguing about not doing, but yet you still persisted in dragging this through the mud with your senselessness over your so called interpretation of "TRADITION."
@makai, re-read my post. I think you misunderstood me. Completely. I'm on your side.
Ha! Nice reading Makai. Just because he thanked us for being civil didn't mean he was on our side. You really wrote a lot considering you didn't even read his comment carefully!
